Someone explain "cleans" to me

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by DougM, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    What @Sparky2 said.

    It does sound odd to many causal players, but techs....at least in my circles...use it all the time.

    Clean tones may sound great withrelatively "neutral" settings a in some amp, but if you need to bring up the highs and/or upper-mids to "cut" in a live situation the "clean tone" in that situation may be brittle.

    Or an amp may sound great when set to "cut" may be muddy and unclear when adjusted for a jazz guitar situation.

    *OR* an amp may sound wonderful loaded with reverb for "surf" but without reverb sounds dead and clinical.

    Orrrr - without reverb a combo amp may be great, but its reverb tones are sharp, metallic and "clanky".

    Simply - there are multiple clean tones in ANY amp, and when discussed as a "whole" they are "cleans".

    So from my standpoint, even if a player is a one-style, one sound player I will try, when performing service (which almost always includes some "voicing" - at least in my case), to get a good, full balance just in case the amp has to be used by someone else.

    But only after clearing it with the client and assuring them I won't compromise *their* specific needs.

    Does that explain why it's often used in a plural sense?
     
  2. LGOberean

    LGOberean Poster Extraordinaire

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    As opposed to "Great cleans"? :twisted:


    That's interesting. From what little I've seen in Google searches, the terms καθαρό and βρώμικο predominate. Are those forms not singular? Would you please give the terms in the plural that you referred to earlier? And maybe some links to discussions, amp descriptions using said terms?


    Είναι ελληνικά για μένα.
     
  3. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Tele-Afflicted

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    From posts on Reddit and elsewhere that read like... "I want a tube bedroom amp that has great cleans and brutal djent for under $300"
     
  4. clintj

    clintj Friend of Leo's

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    It's because English is three languages hiding in a trenchcoat pretending to be one.

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  5. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Are we a guitar/amp forum or Ms. Silor's 4th grade grammar class.

    We spend enough time correcting a whole lot of other misconceptions around here so I'm gonna vote to let minor grammar issues and a periodic misspelling or two pass. :rolleyes:

    And if you don't understand what was written.....ask.
     
  6. ClashCityTele

    ClashCityTele Tele-Meister

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    I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused here.

    What exactly is clean tone.

    P.S. I own 101 distortion pedals.
     
  7. Nick Fanis

    Nick Fanis Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Amp Cleans : τα καθαρά του ενισχυτή
    Amp Dirties: τα βρώμικα του ενισχυτή

    ι,υ,η (as well as ει,οι, υι) are pronounced like the "i" in give.

    Greek is not that difficult,it is a very structured and mathematical language with few irregularities,now if you REALLY want difficult try GERMAN (I have been learning/speaking German since I was 9 and I still have not mastered it 100%....)

    :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  8. golfnut

    golfnut Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah I don't call my records "vinyl" or "vinyls". I don't really like either term. I call them records or LP's. But I sure don't stress about what some youngen likes to call them. It just doesn't bother me.
    And I agree some stuff just sounds better on rekkids.:D
     
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  9. LGOberean

    LGOberean Poster Extraordinaire

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    Ευχαριστώ. Languages are kind of another hobby for me. Four decades ago, I took a course taught by a church, the text was New Testament Greek for Beginners. BTW, I am not a clergyman, or a teacher. I just like studying the New Testament in Greek. I only took that one course back in 1974, and I try to keep up my reading Greek for my own enjoyment.

    The pronunciation scheme taught in that text/class was a form of Erasmian. Years later, in correspondence with a man from Crete, I had explained to me the Modern Greek pronunciation scheme. And years after that, it actually came in handy.

    About ten years ago, my daughter and son-in-law got me a T-shirt that reads Είναι όλα ελληνικά για μένα. One day while wearing that shirt, I went to a local coffee shop that is frequented by people of different nationalities. As I was inside getting my coffee, several people at a table outside were smiling at me and waving enthusiastically. I meekly waved back, thinking to myself, "Hello. I have no idea who you are, or where we've met."

    I went outside to 'fess up to not remembering them, only to discover we hadn't met, but they were Greeks and were excited about my shirt. They asked me if I knew what it said, and so I of course replied, "It's all Greek to me." Then they asked me, "Can you pronounce it?" I didn't want to sound like some Texans I've heard trying to pronounce something in Spanish (a language I also speak), so I quickly thought through the scheme taught to me by my Cretan pen pal, then pronounced it out loud accordingly. They exclaimed, "Exactly right!" So from that point forward, I abandoned the Erasmian scheme I was taught and have pronounced Greek the way Greeks do. To the best of my ability, anyway.
     
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  10. eclecticsynergy

    eclecticsynergy Tele-Afflicted

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    Fire bell clanging, then that unforgettable solo. And the impossibly high notes at the end...

    I saw a Deconstructing The Beatles movie about the making of Magical Mystery Tour just last week. Some cool info about assembling the many layers in Strawberry Fields and I Am The Walrus. Included a bit about the piccolo trumpet licks in Penny Lane. (The film featured an early version without it and the absence was very apparent. They brought the same trumpet player in for the live telecast of All You Need Is Love.) Also of course included the story of the poorly-conceived, disorganized and ultimately disastrous film project.

    Those Deconstructing films are cool for Beatles fans and especially for those interested in the old overdubbing techniques that engineer Geoff Emerick* used to layer the sounds when the state of the art was a four-track and mixing consoles didn't even have panpots. But there's fascinating perspective too on their songwriting technique with early demo versions and various ways how songs evolved into their final versions.

    The films come through the independent theaters every now and then - I saw the Sgt Pepper's one last Summer.

    *RIP Geoff; never became the household name that Sir George Martin was, yet very involved in and crucial to the Beatles production sound for some of their greatest work.
     
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  11. eclecticsynergy

    eclecticsynergy Tele-Afflicted

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    To me cleans being plural makes sense; they're a spectrum of tones - a family rather than an individual.
     
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  12. nosuch

    nosuch Friend of Leo's

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    Friday I played through an amp that looked like a washing machine. It sure did clean up my tone.
    :confused:
     
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  13. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

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    The point the OP was making is, we have "cleans" when we mean clean tones, but we don't have "dirties" when referring to dirty tones.

    Somewhere in the transition from adjective to noun, "cleans" becomes a countable noun, while "dirty" becomes an uncountable noun, that needs a separate counter, for example, "oodles of dirt", or "heaps of dirt".

    Annother example of countable and uncountable nouns would be handbags (countable) and luggage (uncountable). You can't have "luggages", you need a counter, eg, "two pieces" of luggage with the word "piece" serving as the counter.

    Interesting observation... I'm not sure why "dirt" evolved into an uncountable noun but "clean" evolved into a countable one.

    FWIW, a few years back I started referring to dirty tones as "crunch tones" or just "crunchies" for short.

    Like "cleans", "crunchies" are countable... Lol
     
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  14. Digital Larry

    Digital Larry Tele-Holic

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    Yeah just ask my cats, never enough crunchies when you need em.
     
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  15. gridlock

    gridlock Friend of Leo's

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    Cleans, definition: see below.

    8FA66045-5C05-4891-AE1E-CA497EFED707.jpeg
     
  16. wulfenganck

    wulfenganck Tele-Holic

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    Well that depends on the amp, maybe some small 1 - 10 watt one-channel tube amp with gain and master knobs distorts the moment you dial volume over 5 on 1-10 scale; but my Hughes & Kettner Edition Tube 25th stays clean most of the way; to overdrive the clean-channel means serious danger for your ears.
    To clarify - with clean, I mean something like a Nile Rodgers type of clean.

    ....I do find "cleans" reads and sounds awkward. But then I probably have slang terms in my mother-tongue that made it into written language, that sound strange to a foreigner.
     
  17. King Fan

    King Fan Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    It *is* interesting. Maybe uncountable doesn't so much imply 'single' but 'so numerous or diverse as to be not worth counting' or 'unified by a strong quality, even if numerous and diverse.'

    Humans are prone to *error*.

    Punk rediscovered *discord*.

    Great guitar tone approaches *the divine*.

    Country and jazz are associated with cleans, rock and blues with dirt....
     
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  18. Norris Vulcan

    Norris Vulcan Tele-Meister

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    What I was getting at with my earlier post is that no guitar amp is distortion-free. No matter how big or small, how "Fender clean" it is.

    But I guess most people's definition of 'Clean' isn't 'undistorted', it's 'less distorted than the Drive channel'.

    I'm thinking 'clean' = what you put in, is what comes out. This probably an error on my part :confused:
     
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

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    I have no natural ability to learn other languages, which is too bad because I've generally gravitated to other cultures in the US, but seldom learned much of their language.

    What I find most interesting is what we learn when comparing translations from not quite Western languages, and particularly if the translated texts are from long gone eras.
    To a large degree it seems like the scholars who make a career translating books are not as versed in the culture and period, so they work more on the literal word meanings more than the cultural implications of the time and place.

    I've tried to learn some ancient Chinese meaning and found it pretty confusing but an entertaining endeavor. Sort of like the fingerboard, there are distinct patters that emerge with practice, and it starts to make sense
    I actually learned some Sanskrit to try to get a better understanding of a translated book, and that was a whole nother crazy trip.

    One place it seems like Western scholars go wrong is confusing power with harmony.

    I think the different ways cultures placed values on ideas or concepts or meanings long ago, when maybe life was more of a mystery that we think it is now, are informative to my own thinking and believing.
    Hard to really explain without going down that road and noticing that there were so many complex cultural values that we don't really have any more.
    And words contained value signifiers.

    The value of life may seem like it was lower in ancient times, because of maybe torture and public killing, or random death due to dumb stuff like a toothache or the flu, yet there was some sort of value placed on almost everything in many ancient cultures. We see this as superstition, but at the same time there were multiple motivations behind superstition, not just ignorance.

    Today in the western world it's mostly money that has value, then maybe fame in the sub group of celebrities and public figures.
    Gaining knowledge seems to have diminished values.

    Having values aint what it used to be!
     
  20. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Meister

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    We don't usually call it distortion at those levels though, we call it "sparkle" or "chime" or "a bell-like top end." The tones are clean in spite of the clipping.

    Sounds more like a PA than a guitar amp. If I can strum an open C and not regret it, it's a clean tone.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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