Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com Reiland Pickups
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com Reilander Pickups
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com Reilander Pickups
Join TDPRI Today

Skanky treble... found culprit. Treble Bleed!

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by Guitarteach, Mar 20, 2017 at 3:40 PM.

  1. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

    Aug 6, 2014
    UK
    This turned out to be a surprise.

    I was starting to get worried my amp need a filter cap change as I was getting a strange, ugly out of tune distortion spoiling the attack of strong clear notes. A compressor just made it worse.

    I cycled a few guitars and found it was really just the one single coil guitar that did it.

    Snipped the treble bleed I'd put in a while back. Now it is perfect and the sounds are crystal clear.

    It is not an effect of treble bleed circuits that I had seen mentioned and I had assumed guitar voltage and current levels would not effect a cap like this.

    Anyone else experienced similar?
     
  2. Andy B

    Andy B Tele-Afflicted

    Mar 16, 2003
    Colorado
    Different caps will sound differently. Even the same type of cap. In the past I've run leads out of a guitar & clipped in various caps until I found one I liked the sound of. One of my next projects will be replacing the 470pf ceramic treble bleed caps in my guitars with Silver Mica.
     
  3. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

    Aug 6, 2014
    UK
    Thanks. It was an orange drop that was in. May get a supply of micas to replace the various cheap ceramics in other places. I think the treble bleed will be staying out.

    Given the views that people share that only 'cap value' counts, this experience seems to prove otherwise. Definite distortion and unpleasant overtones at the transients when the cap was present.
     
  4. Forum Sponsor Sponsored posting

  5. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX
    never liked treble bleeders, they get in the way of the volume pot's great tone shaping feature. :D

    all that matters with caps in passive guitar circuits is their metered value - the rest means squat ... well, not precisely true - cap build/materials can benefit it's durability and longevity, which leaves out those expensive paper in oil caps that some poor clueless folks think are "where the sound is at". don't waste yer money on guitar circuit caps.
     
    MilwMark likes this.
  6. Golem

    Golem Tele-Meister

    I love a good treble bleed on humbuckers. Didn't even know what one was until I played a PRS and was amazed at how well it worked. With strats it depends on the pickups and how the bleed is done.
     
  7. Bartholomew3

    Bartholomew3 Friend of Leo's

    Dec 8, 2010
    Montreal
    I had a treble bleed put into a vintage tele to see what I was missing and it killed the personality of the guitar everywhere, both pickups, any volume.

    Became thin and tinny sounding so snipped it out after a couple of days.
     
    MilwMark likes this.
  8. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

    Aug 6, 2014
    UK
    Mmmm. That is the opposite of my specific experience. I am therefore 'clueless' at the moment.

    With the cap/resistor combination bleed in there was a distorted strangled attack or extra resonance on very loud, clear notes from the bridge pickup. Not just a frequency cut or change of pot behaviour.

    It was very very similar in tone to the unpleasant atonal distortion I get if I overload the digital input in my rack fx. Gain and compressor pedals made it worse.

    I am wondering about the potential mechanism for this as removing the treble bleed cap and resistor instantly stopped the effect.

    Any insights? It was the only variable in play.
     
  9. Piotr

    Piotr Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 5, 2011
    Poland
  10. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX
    all passive pickups are built with the most amount of treble they can deliver. treble can be removed, never added. a bypass input/wiper tiny value cap (.001uf) is a shunt for pickup treble freqs sent to the jack, no more or less. whence first soldered into a circuit, even if the pickup is wired direct to the jack, treble gets shunted to ground.

    caps suck treble out of passive pickups ... as does wire, pots, switches, anything conductive. the more stuff in the signal path, the more treble gets lost to ground. outboard "stuff" (mainly, the tone bending modulators) really obfuscates the natural tone/sound of passive pickups. it is what it is.

    with specific regards to passive guitar circuits, a cap is a cap is a cap - only its metered value matters (not what's stamped on its body). huge voltage "orange" drop caps are ridiculous in micro volt circuits and make circuit building space a premium. there have been a number of online controlled tests concerning caps in passive guitar circuits, and the conclusion is always that the cap's metered value is all that matters. high voltage/amperage amplifiers? a totally diff'rent scenario, where more than a cap's metered value is important to tone/sound.
     
    mitchfinck likes this.
  11. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Poster Extraordinaire

    Agree.

    A cold solder joint could behave exactly the way you describe, and a proper treble bleed would not.
     
  12. Andy B

    Andy B Tele-Afflicted

    Mar 16, 2003
    Colorado
    If it was an orange drop then I'd agree with the bad solder diagnosis.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.