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Schaller vs. Fender 70s Tuner

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by nischo, Sep 9, 2018.

  1. nischo

    nischo TDPRI Member

    Age:
    28
    7
    Nov 17, 2016
    Germany
    Hi Folks,


    i've a Fender American Vintage 72 Telecaster Custom, which i like a lot.
    But the tuners are pretty cheap feeling and they dont work very smoothly.

    The guitar has F-Stamped 70s tuners.

    Would you guys think, replacing them with Schallers would help?
    https://www.thomann.de/de/schaller_f_series_70s_6l_ni.htm

    Cheers
    Nic
     

  2. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    They are Schallers. You can disassemble them and lube with lght grease. They are firm usually and don't slip.
     
    dan1952 likes this.

  3. nischo

    nischo TDPRI Member

    Age:
    28
    7
    Nov 17, 2016
    Germany
    Hey Dacious,

    OK, thanks for the Info! I thought this where Fenders try on these tuners.

    Then I'll try to lube them, when i change strings.
    Still have some Big Bands Nut Sauce somewhere. That will work.
     

  4. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    Despite the stamped metal cover, the innards of these tuning machines are die cast and of low quality. Soft zinc alloy, also. At least some Schallers of this type have a slightly larger stamped cover and cannot be substituted - you'd have to dismantle them and re-use the existing covers.

    I absolutely agree with you, those stock tuning machines you have are sub-par. They're simply not well engineered at the outset, and so it doesn't matter if the manufacture is German or S. Korea. What you have on that American is the same machine used on some MIMs. Such as the Classic '69 Thinline. On my MIM '69 Thinline, I converted over to the Gotoh splits. In the Allparts catalog that's TK 0880. If there's a downside, it is you had chrome and these will be nickel plated and don't match chrome real well.
     

  5. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 19, 2011
    Merseyside UK
    Fender have recently been using 'F' 70s style tuners with PW stamped on the rear which usually indicates Ping manufacture. Ping are based in Taiwan yet some of the Fender retail packs of these tuners are marked Made in S Korea. So are Fender cutting costs again by going really cheap to one of the 'nameless' Korean manufacturers or do Ping have a S Korea facility?

    Schaller say their 70s tuners are the original version as supplied to Fender but with the 'S' not 'F' logo.
    https://schaller.info/en/machine-heads/236/original-f-series-70-s?number=10580220.15.60&c=53

    Schaller had the contract with Fender for around 30 years from the mid 70s and are probably the best. They originally replaced a Fender product which was not a great design.
     

  6. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    I think, when you tear these things apart and inspect them, you will see that the design is the same. Materials the same, tolerances the same.

    It makes no difference to me where this type of tuning machine is made. It is going be be subpar, until someone gets smart and substituted the internals from the Gotoh splits, into an offset body tuning machine.

    We know that Ping has made, for various MIM models, a split that's been coming from Taiwan and its quality has gradually improved as tolerances have narrowed. I do think the due to pressure from the Mainland, that manufacture in Taiwan may be in trouble in the future. But these lowly Ping splits, which cost a fraction of what the AV72 style machines cost, are IMO decidedly better. Mostly because the design is so superior.
     

  7. Old Tele man

    Old Tele man Friend of Leo's

    May 10, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I still prefer the original "split post" Fender tuners (by Kluson) for their simplicity and usefulness. Just wish they made them with 16:1 ratio.
     
    awasson likes this.

  8. derekwarner

    derekwarner TDPRI Member

    Age:
    68
    23
    Dec 25, 2015
    Australia

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018

  9. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    AFAIK the American Vintage use the same tuners as my 1999 build MIM. They are not the same as come on Asian build PW.

    I had my 78s and Thinlines in pieces and everything interchanges. Covers, gears)shaft. Only diff is the shaft length. The Pings can't commenton. I was playin the Thinline today - rock solid after 19 years. Like the old ones.
     

  10. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    I have a 1999 MIM Classic '69 Thinline, which came to me with stock tuning machines. They're simply awful. There is no reasonable way that Asian ones could work worse than these.

    I remember a shift of production, from Germany to Asia (I think Korea) maybe 5 years ago. I remember people suggesting that the Korean ones were actually better. I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd bet the change would be minimal. I'm from the generation of people who like to take things completely apart, to see how they work and how they're made. And this is why I am so adamant - I seriously was unhappy when I saw what I saw - and how much wear and tear could a gauge .010 string actually do?
     

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