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Reverb article on PR

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by Indian Joe, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Indian Joe

    Indian Joe Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    May 21, 2017
    Ramona, California, U$A
    I just read an article on Reverb News on the Princeton. Hmmm....some of the information is different from what I have read from many sources, including on tis site. AA 1164 was never mentioned, but other numbers were. Comments by anyone who know more than I do on these beloved amps would be great. TIA.
     

  2. corliss1

    corliss1 Tele-Afflicted Gold Supporter

    Sep 13, 2008
    Lansing, MI
    A link to the specific article would be helpful here :D

    What questions did you have?
     

  3. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Holic

    Age:
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    Jan 6, 2011
    NC
    Was the article on non reverb models only?
     

  4. Stubee

    Stubee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Jan 22, 2007
    Mid-Michigan

  5. Indian Joe

    Indian Joe Tele-Meister

    Age:
    69
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    May 21, 2017
    Ramona, California, U$A
    Yes, that is it. I only have a little ipad running on cell service so posting links is beyond my capability.
    The circuit numbers mentioned in the article I have never heard of, particularly relating to a BF or SF PR. Other 'amp tech' statements seemed odd as well.
    I taught privately for 35 years, (1980-2015) during which time guitar magazines flourished. Theory articles in the mags were so confusing to my students, and rather incorrect in terminology, it was ridiculous. But, they were written by "somebody famous" so, they must be correct, no matter wht their teacher says. As a result, I have an issue with misleading information. Fake News has become mainstream, no longer only in pulp rags. Anyway, if anyone can enlighten me on the printed 'facts', I would appreciate it. TIA.
     

  6. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Jan 2, 2007
    Virginia, USA
    I find it interesting that they make a big deal over the differentiation of a 5AR4 and GZ34 tubes like it's some night and day difference... And the comment that the AA1270 is a blackface circuit.

    But, who am I? I mistype crap all the time. I wouldn't even want to think about the misinformation I've spread from TDPRI alone! LOL
     
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  7. Indian Joe

    Indian Joe Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    May 21, 2017
    Ramona, California, U$A
    Hey, Axis, thanks for writing. Yes, my big fingers on this little ipad make lots of errors, but this is a chat site, not a publication. If one is writing an article to be published proof reading is essential.
    The comment about the AA1270 ciruit being PR BF is the one I question. In all my studies/ readings, that circuit number is one I have not seen before. Also, the changes mentioned through the BF-SF years does not agree with the info recently revealed on TDPRI in the Blackfacing thread. Anyway....
     

  8. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Holic

    Age:
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    Jan 6, 2011
    NC
    As far as I know there was no AA764 Princeton, just mislabeled tube charts. The AA764 was a Champ. The AA964 was the non reverb Princeton, which used a GZ34 and the AA1164 was the first Princeton Reverb, which used a 5U4GB. The AA1270 could not have been a blackface as the schematic date is December of 1970.
     
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  9. E5RSY

    E5RSY Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    50
    Mar 5, 2009
    Georgetown, TX
    Per Teagle and Sprung on the Princeton Reverb, page 51 of "Fender Amps. The First Fifty Years":

    "A three-position ground switch was added to the back panel in '70, but otherwise the circuit (AB1270) was identical to the blackface models..."

    It was just the switch that warranted the new number, apparently.
     
    Indian Joe likes this.

  10. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

    Jan 12, 2011
    Snellman MN
    I tend to believe the AA764 Princeton Reverb was a real circuit, because I've got one. It used a PT with a center tapped filiment so there isn't the two 100 ohm resisters on the pilot light.
    It changed to the AA1164 probably because. Number one that PT was weak and. Why use an expensive GZ34 in a cheap little amp when a 5u4 would work? Probably had more to do wit the cheaper 5u4 but who knows.
    Now think about it that lasted from July 1964 to November 1964 or so. (mine's date coded December 64) Leo had the printer make him a pile of those tube charts. CBS took over in 1965 and they were real good at using up leftover tube charts.
    Deluxe Reverb with Deluxe charts, yup got a 67 BFDR that way. Then all the blackface charted silverfaces. Lots of those weren't BF circuits, probably most.
     
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  11. Indian Joe

    Indian Joe Tele-Meister

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    Ramona, California, U$A
    Thanks, guys. So, the circuit numbers were very unusual, at least, and not quite correct in that the 1270 was SF not BF. All not a big deal in many ways, but to use such info in a published article bugs me. That is what puts readers who do not know on the wrong path. However, the Princeton sounds great no matter what the numbers say!!
     
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  12. E5RSY

    E5RSY Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    50
    Mar 5, 2009
    Georgetown, TX
    Granted. But from a practical standpoint, all there really has ever been to know is that, unlike the bigger amps, the Deluxe Reverb and Princeton Reverb never really received significant changes going from BF to SF.
    Exactly. Plug one in and enjoy.
     
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  13. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

    Jan 12, 2011
    Snellman MN
    Oh boy. Read for about two seconds into that Fender "Guru" thing and had to stop.
    I got five horses here.
    I don't need to read horse **** online.
     
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  14. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    61
    Mar 19, 2006
    Gilbert, AZ (PHX)
    Oddly the article on Reverb does not even mention the bias vary tremolo... this is one of the cool features of this amp that was carried over from the brown series amps and part of why I own several of them.
     

  15. Dukex

    Dukex Tele-Meister

    357
    Nov 8, 2012
    SoCal
    I'm no amp expert, but I am curious what horse**** you are referring to. I have referenced the "Fender Guru" site before, but I will cease doing so if the info they provide is incorrect. I don't want to reference or share incorrect info.
     

  16. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

    Jan 12, 2011
    Snellman MN
    Disclaimer I've had several beers. . . .

    Ok right off the bat I saw the AA764 circuit listed as "CBS". If you know anything you know how Fender circuit dates work. That circuit was drawn in July 1964. CBS took over sometime in 1965 so that's horse ****.
    And there was something else I saw right away I forget now. (see disclaimer) Then I stopped reading it.
    Put simply the Fender Guru had a ton of misinformation. Not exactly unusual on the internet.
    If you're going to have a Web site, or write books get it right !
     
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  17. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    60
    941
    Jan 6, 2011
    NC
    In the article, Fender Guru says "where the 5U4GB was replaced with a GZ34". It was the other way around. Also, they say the Princeton Reverb originally came with a Jensen C10N, C10R, Oxford 10L5 or 10J4. I've never seen a C10R as original equipment in a Princeton Reverb. The C10NS was used for a very short time. The magnet on the Fender C10NS wasn't as large as the standard "N" magnet Jensen and was probably a special order. I've always thought of them; the Fender C10NS, as a C10P. Just my two cents.
     

  18. Indian Joe

    Indian Joe Tele-Meister

    Age:
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    May 21, 2017
    Ramona, California, U$A
    I have been in the San Diego 'area' 39 years. There was a guy here, Mike Fenton, worked on amps, had a store, who wrote down everything about every old amp he worked on, especially Fenders. Screws, grommets, all hardware, and especially parts with ID markings enabled him to track when the factory changed suppliers, etc. There was no internet then to add confusion. Mike even had dates for when amps had incorrect labels inside, stamped with the date codes, of course. He told me back then ('80's) a few of the low-end amps were made & sold with non-stock speakers, odd hardware, etc. He concluded this from knowing the original owner of the amp, and the store where it was sold. Remembering this, how could there be a real 'authority'? A factory worker has to use a different but useable part on an amp as the correct ones just ran out. Certainly during the early CBS era, that could happen. Sent to dealers far away, away the amps went.
    Being the one who started this thread, I have learned lots,as always, from you all, and see there is 'confused information' published on websites we would like to trust. It is a good thing we can connect here!! Thanks!
     
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  19. Indian Joe

    Indian Joe Tele-Meister

    Age:
    69
    139
    May 21, 2017
    Ramona, California, U$A
    I may have written a confusing statement in the above post, let me clarify: The amps Mike Fenton catalogued info on were the earliest pre-tweeds through the end of SF. I saw Mike weekly at least through the 1980's-1990's. Sadly, his personal life fell apart, so he dropped out of the music world to become an organic farmer.
    Let's continue to share our knowledge, information & experience here. -};~)
     

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