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Real point to point.

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by printer2, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

    May 24, 2010
    Canada
    Every once in a while I see an amp touting that it is point to point construction and then I see the parts built up on a board. 'You call that point to point?' "Now this is point to point.'[​IMG]

    Yeah they do use a board on either side of the tube wiring grid but darn it, this must have been a pain to service.
     
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  2. schmee

    schmee Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2003
    northwest
    an organ no doubt?
     
  3. thunderbyrd

    thunderbyrd Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    59
    Dec 21, 2004
    central ky
    Does that thing work?
     
  4. rdwhitti

    rdwhitti Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    568
    Feb 16, 2016
    TX
    I always wondered the same about calling guitar amps "point to point". I serviced radios and tvs in high school and those I would consider "point to point". Guitar amps that use a turret or eyelet boards? I don't know...in a manner of speaking I guess it counts.
     
  5. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    28
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    Just like there's a big difference between the PCB's in cheap DVD players and PCB's in the International Space Station, there's also variance with P2P and Turret/Eyelet builds. There's good examples and bad examples of each..


    Also turret/eyelet builds are not 'P2P' they're simply hand wired turret/eyelet boards. Some turret/eyelet amps can have P2P sections.


    There's not some automatic hierarchy of build styles. All have advantages and distadvantage and can produce a good product when done properly, and when not done properly, can have issues.
     
  6. mherrcat

    mherrcat Tele-Holic

    544
    Dec 12, 2013
    California
    This guy makes point-to-point 5E3 amps. I almost bought one, but decided I couldn't justify the $2,700 price.

    tweed-deluxe-p2p.jpg

    Those long, uninsulated leads are a bit scary though...

    http://www.tweeddeluxe.com
     
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  7. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

    May 24, 2010
    Canada
    The one I had did, got it for $25. If you look at the left side you can see that copper wire arrangement running up there are five 9-pin sockets under that. The bad thing about these organs is that the tubes they use are similar to 12AX7's except the plates are split in two. They use them to give a set of oscillators using one triode. Point to point uses the parts to go from socket to lug, usually a number of a non-conductive strip, to wires, and any other combination. These things have a a long strip on either side of the tube array and all these parts are built upon it. Until you take one apart you don't really comprehend what a mess it is. An engineered mess but mess for sure, for the person making it.

    This is probably the model I had.

    [​IMG]

    The boards are on a 'door' that is on a hinge and swings out. That big ass transformer has a killer heater supply. The power amp section is about 25W and uses a hifi power tube. You can see the tubes up top, one rectifier and two power tubes. Rather the fat pins of the 6L6 these had pins roughly like a preamp tube. Nice sized output transformer, 6.6k ohm. But then again it was designed to amplify those low notes. Here with the door closed.

    [​IMG]

    See the nice big OT up top. And if you think these things are heavy to move, well you got that right. Some neat sounds.

     
  8. jondanger

    jondanger Poster Extraordinaire

    Jan 27, 2011
    Charm City, MD
    Shoot man it better have a killer heater supply - is that 28 12FQ8 tubes?
     
  9. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

    May 24, 2010
    Canada
    And no reason not to slip some insulation over them. What would it cost in materials and time? Not much. And for the price how much better is it?


    Plus about 8-10 12AX7's, I can't remember which. It has a reverb pan, I do not recall the amp section for it. I may have to look it up.
     
  10. clintj

    clintj Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2015
    Idaho
    Check out what Bruce Clement is doing at BC Audio. He builds P2P guitar amps that are beautiful inside, and very tidy too.
     
  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    My favorite organs to junk out are certain Baldwin’s....in addition to some 35 12AU7’s which one hardly needs there are almost that many 12AX7’s......all premium selected tubes. Then, there are the RC A Blackplate 6L6’s, a 5U4 and some big transformers. I even used a piece of a chassis for a mounting of the switch and fuse for the installation of an isolation transformer in a Widow maker guitar amp last week. Oh yeah.....bigtime harvest of wire.
    I am going to look at a Hammond today....
     
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  12. flyswatter

    flyswatter Friend of Leo's

    Jan 12, 2013
    Quebec

    Amp builders in the know generally do distinguish true p2p (components mounted directly to jacks and sockets or on terminal strips) from "handwired" amps (amps that use turret or eyelet boards to mount the components). But, yes, I see a lot of sales or ad pitches that misname vintage Fenders or what have you as "point to point."

    Technically, the electrons don't care whether or not they pass through a copper turrent or eyelet on the way to the next component. The relative quality of p2p vs handwired circuit boards depends on the quality and cleanliness of the build.
     
  13. flyswatter

    flyswatter Friend of Leo's

    Jan 12, 2013
    Quebec
    Amp builders in the know generally do distinguish true p2p (components mounted directly to jacks and sockets or on terminal strips) from "handwired" amps (amps that use turret or eyelet boards to mount the components). But, yes, I see a lot of sales or ad pitches that misname vintage Fenders or what have you as "point to point."

    Technically, the electrons don't care whether or not they pass through a copper turrent or eyelet on the way to the next component. The relative quality of p2p vs handwired circuit boards depends on the quality and cleanliness of the build. Either can be great circuits durable and easy to service -- or confusing rats nests almost impossible to decipher
     
  14. Urshurak776

    Urshurak776 Tele-Meister

    387
    Jul 2, 2004
    Charlotte
    I used to dabble in the headphone amplifier world. There are a bunch of headphone tube amplifiers that utilize the 12AU7. My understanding is this tube is not made for audio reproduction, but it sure sounds great in the right design. The little Bravo Audio amp is great. I use it at work every day. Also, the Millet Starving Student Amp has been modified to use 12AU7 tubes. I'd love to get hold of those tubes :)

    IMG_0737.jpg

    I just realized this thread is 4 months old. My apologies.
     
  15. alathIN

    alathIN Tele-Meister

    Age:
    53
    291
    Oct 25, 2017
    Indiana
    Does the whole city suffer a brown-out when you turn that thing on?

    Or is this the model that comes with its own hydroelectric dam?
     
  16. Mutato

    Mutato Tele-Meister

    429
    Sep 16, 2008
    Rhode Island
    Can you imagine wiring one of these 1940s era first computers?! Yikes.


    computer.jpg
     
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  17. Old Tele man

    Old Tele man Friend of Leo's

    May 10, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    And YOU thought changing tubes in your AMP was a pain? :lol:
     
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  18. DCW74

    DCW74 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    44
    113
    Sep 11, 2018
    Columbus, OH
    There is at least one thumb screw in the way!
     
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