Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Question about Garcia's Alligator strat

Discussion in 'Other Guitars, other instruments' started by televiking, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. aegert

    aegert Tele-Meister

    108
    Nov 25, 2009
    long island, n.y.
    the guitar in Jeff's hands has an abr-1 with a custom made stop tail ala Jerry's v2 Alligator. the next version that Jerry played had the alembic bridge with brass sustain er block. Killed the tone
     

  2. Agitator

    Agitator Friend of Leo's

    Nov 22, 2010
    In transit

  3. Al Watsky

    Al Watsky Tele-Afflicted

    Apr 5, 2007
    New Jersey
    An ABR will sound better IMO when used for this sort of mod.
    The impulse to tinker on these old Fenders was overwhelming.
    Top string mount Fenders are a different slice.
    The Alembic bridge will really isolate the string energy from the body.
    Its a part of the character of the Alembic sound. Top heavy.
     

  4. aegert

    aegert Tele-Meister

    108
    Nov 25, 2009
    long island, n.y.
    Hundred year hall is great but the mix sucked and there is way to much tape noise on it. If you want to here the tour Tivoli, Paris, London....

    the new set will be redone in a much better fashion.The sound will be much better and the balance of vocals to Guitars will be amazing... They recorded all of these shows on 16 track ampex atr's... Nuff said

    I am on the line for the set..
    A
     

  5. beach bob

    beach bob Friend of Leo's

    Jan 31, 2008
    South Florida
    That is tres cool news about the Europe Tour box set, though I must say it's pretty spendy, for me. Maybe they'll offer a somewhat consolidated offering at a later time? At my advancing age, I cannot see plowing though sixty CDs of all Dead shows, great though they may be. I'll have to stop to make dinner at some point :p :lol:

    Anyhoo, Aegert, congrats on getting the Alligator into Jeff's hands for a proper workout, that's a singular sort of accomplishment that I personally would be pretty proud of. Can't wait to see what you're up to next [I.E., the Twin build ...] ;)
     

  6. Chip

    Chip Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Feb 25, 2005
    Northfield Center, Ohio
    Aegert,

    Sorry I haven’t been around for while with the holidays, kids and life
    In general I just haven’t had time to hang out on the TDPRI. I see you
    even sent me a private message with an update thanks for thinking of me.

    Anyway all I can say is WOW!
    It looks and sounds incredible!

    There is defiantly no room for me to be critical at all about this awesome
    undertaking but I think I see one thing about the bridge. It looks to me like
    the brass rod that holds the strings is closer to the bridge on Jerry’s. It also
    looks to me like the anchors are little longer on Jerry’s.

    I tried to fudge your photos a bit to show you what I think it should be.

    Your photo…
    [​IMG]

    My edited photo…
    [​IMG]

    Here is a close up photo of Jerry’s…
    [​IMG]

    And a few more comparisons…
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Anyway sorry to be nitpicky but maybe the string angle over the bridge
    might effect the tone.
     

  7. aegert

    aegert Tele-Meister

    108
    Nov 25, 2009
    long island, n.y.

  8. aegert

    aegert Tele-Meister

    108
    Nov 25, 2009
    long island, n.y.
    Chip..

    The length of the stop tail pc are right. I got the size from Fuller. what you see is the angle throwing things off.

    Yes my stop tail is about 1/4 inch further away by design. As for effecting the tone don't kid me LOL. The softer break helps keep the tension lighter on the abr which has been filed down. Closer would cause it to bend or flex more. If I change it out to a Nashville it could be moved forward. Realize that this has 11's on it not 10's like Jerry's.

    As for Nit picking... I never called you a nit ;-) you are as crazy into the details as I am and I would have asked much the same q's.

    This is a killer guitar. I have sold every guitar I ever made and I am really considering keeping this.


    Beach bob I am active on the amp project right now should I just post some here or in another thread. I have 4 amp related projects going just for this guitar but organizing my thoughts and pictures just seems like a way to big a task so I will list what I have going on and post a few things time and again...

    AMPS... I build amps for pro's as a side gig and have sold kits over the years under www.adamamps.com but that is no longer profitable with China and my friend Nik in Malaysia. We developed some stuff together and he goes on but I am just doing one offs now. Before I continue Big nods go to Mike Wald and Janet Furman without there info none of this would be possible. Go to http://www.wald-electronics.com/preampmods.html read the info and then read on

    1) Alembic fender Twin Reverb Combo:
    I have a 1971 no Master vol Chassis that was cannibalized. I have switched out all the components to Alembic specs. I left much of the wire but am now re doing some as the heater on #4 6l6gc 8pin just arced and **** the socket last night while I was working on tuning the Power supply circuit. I am going to replace the 8pin sockets tonight and re do the heater wires.
    The mods are alembic not Healy. The Healy mods stiffen the amp to much for my taste. He is a genius but I like the earlier sound. So...

    - Power supply, so I am finding lower but still in spec voltages on the PS drops.. Funny as running at 120 vs. 118v. I always see higher. This is why I am tuning the system. I need to use a hand picked Res in the final stage to bring plate voltages on 7025's up 15%. The Power Tranny is to spec open by 1 volt!

    -I got the original 1966 Cab pictured before. I have a repro black face plate. I have an original 1969 face plate should I use that as Garcia used Silver later on? I just love the black logo Shoot me

    - John is making dyes for me but Courtnay Pollack is making a few for me to and he is the guy who made them for the band even to this day. I love Johns work.. They will all get used as I have ext cabs , reverb units and other amps needing grill covers. If you want a baffle with a tye dye grill let me know I will be able to help out :)

    - Did all the preamp mods Just doing the tweaks should button it up in the next couple of weeks

    2) Fender twin reverb rack mount pre
    This is going to be a product. I am doing a point to point rack mount pre-amp. It will be the Pre front end, including spring reverb. here is a mock up of the front panel. It is an ongoing love affair


    [​IMG]
     

  9. Chip

    Chip Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Feb 25, 2005
    Northfield Center, Ohio
    aegert,

    Thanks for the info. It all makes sense to me now.
    So my eyes aren’t messing with me on the distance
    of the bridge. And I’m sorry I forgot about the fact
    that you have heard it from the horses mouth on the
    hold down brackets.

    Anyway if you did sell how much would you ask?

    Thanks again,
    chip
     

  10. aegert

    aegert Tele-Meister

    108
    Nov 25, 2009
    long island, n.y.
    chip.. a bunch of people have asked that.. I have a lot of R&D in this. I really couldn't say. The number would have to be in the mid $3k's to make me think about it. I want to take my wife on a vacation. But even then...

    I am doing another neck for this one with more modern dimensions. Jeff likes a thinner profile I want him to play it in a DSO 1972 show. So at some point I will make another one. At that point it would be easier to part with it, but then I would think DSO would want it for that purpose. That's what Baraco was saying to Jeff when I took it out of the case. Who knows?

    Hell someone might never want it anyway LOL.
     

  11. Chip

    Chip Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Feb 25, 2005
    Northfield Center, Ohio
    aegert,

    I see that DSO is playing in Cleveland next Thursday
    Is it O.K. if Jeff brings it along?
     

  12. aegert

    aegert Tele-Meister

    108
    Nov 25, 2009
    long island, n.y.
    I think he is on the road now but in either case I wouldn't send the guitar out with him without me at this point. We have to get together for another round.

    Our next session will be through the twin reverb that is on my bench right now. I want that to be in a studio so I can work with him to finalize the tone. When he played it he played it through the tone king which is the wrong amp for the guitar. It sounded great as you can here but it sounds so much better through the right circuit.
     

  13. Blazer

    Blazer Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    41
    Dec 2, 2003
    The Netherlands
    Looks good, all you need to do now if chop your right middle finger off to complete the picture.

    ;)
    I'm just joking, nice work.
     

  14. aegert

    aegert Tele-Meister

    108
    Nov 25, 2009
    long island, n.y.
    **** I did...but it was my left.. Ooops.
     

  15. weezy109

    weezy109 Tele-Holic

    845
    Aug 28, 2010
    Kentucky
    I remember those uncle al stickers from rax. Can you still get them?
     

  16. Chip

    Chip Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Feb 25, 2005
    Northfield Center, Ohio
    Found some nice “Pre Mod Alligator” clips on Youtube.

    These are from Chateau d’Herouville – June 21 1971





    Notice the tie-dye amp covers?
     

  17. tele0053

    tele0053 Tele-Holic

    956
    Aug 29, 2003
    Wash. DC.
    I saw the dead at American University in fall of 72 on the baseball field. I think it was early October. He was playing the sunburst maple neck late 50's strat. I believe it was pretty much stock, his tone was very Europe 72ish and sounded great.
    I remember a stripper with huge headlights took her top off on stage during the intermission and was balancing 2 joints on her ample rack, it was really something to see,
    and the audience was absolutely delighted with her antics. At 14 years... old I certainly was.
    I wonder if anybody filmed this I'd love to know.

    Sorry for jumping off the subject but thought I'd share the mamaries.....
     

  18. Agitator

    Agitator Friend of Leo's

    Nov 22, 2010
    In transit
    Big thumbs up.
     

  19. Chip

    Chip Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    50
    Feb 25, 2005
    Northfield Center, Ohio
    Here is a nice Dark Star from August 27 1972 with the sunburst strat...

     

  20. tele0053

    tele0053 Tele-Holic

    956
    Aug 29, 2003
    Wash. DC.
    That's the one he was playing at A.U. in 72. I remember the sound as being very tasty twangy strat sounding much like the Derek and the Dominos Clapton strat sound off of Layla.

    I've owned a number of 56, 57, 58 strats they all seem to have that particular tone from that era.
     

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