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Punk Rock: how much of it really was truly "Punk rock?"

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by Blazer, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. Blazer

    Blazer Doctor of Teleocity

    Dec 2, 2003
    The Netherlands
    So maybe Bob Harris was right when he called them "Mock rock" and "They are to the rolling stones what the Monkees are to the Beatles."

  2. Rick330man

    Rick330man Tele-Holic

    Jan 9, 2011
    Florida Keys
    The difference is that the Monkees actually had some excellent songs like Valleri, Words, Steppin' Stone, Last Train of Clarksville, Daydream Believer, etc. Mike Naismith was a decent guitarist and had his own music career. Mickey Dolenz and Davey Jones had good voices.

  3. Drubbing

    Drubbing Friend of Leo's

    They didn't write any of their hits. Boyce and Hart wrote most, and Neil Diamond too. Took and Nesmith were musicians and the manufactured nature of the band as a tV product eventually got to them.

  4. Cat MacKinnon

    Cat MacKinnon Friend of Leo's

    Nov 13, 2011
    Since we're on the subject:

    I've seen HEAD four or five times now, and I still don't know what the hell that movie is about!

  5. A.B.Negative

    A.B.Negative Friend of Leo's

    Aug 26, 2008
    I'm in a death rock duo with my brother.


  6. Rick330man

    Rick330man Tele-Holic

    Jan 9, 2011
    Florida Keys
    Don Kirschner and Mike Naismith lead to Johnny Rotten

    The Monkees owed their success to Don Kirshner. Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart decided to put out a record of their own and came up with "I Wonder What She's Doing Tonight." "I'm a Believer" was written by Neil Diamond. It was Kirshner who had the vision to hook up the Monkees with the songwriters that would ultimately make them famous.

    But give credit to Dolenz, Jones, Tork and Naismith. They could sing. They made a good run of it until Mike Naismith punched a hole in the wall at a meeting, then turned to Kirshner and reportedly said something like "that could have been your head."

    So maybe in the end the Monkees really were more punk than anyone realized. No Mike Naismith = no Johnny Rotten. We can only guess.

  7. markfromoz

    markfromoz TDPRI Member

    Nov 27, 2010
    The punk scene in Sydney '78-'83 was pretty intense. A few of the bands have been mentioned already but I'll add another The Birthday Party which was Rowland Howard & Nick Cave pre Bad Seeds, but when you look at punk in its purest form, especially the Pistols it was just rock and roll. Even AC/DC were labeled punk back then ... M

  8. DanicaL

    DanicaL Banned

    Jan 21, 2016

    There are lots of different kinds of punk bands. Like all genres of music, punk has evolved since the UK bands from the late 70's.

    I think the message that punk music has carried on is enough to depict what is and what isn't punk music.

    From blink182 to the ramones, from FYS to the monkees. All these artists are variants of the original message of punk music.

  9. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

    Jul 17, 2007
    punk is a label
    its all rock and roll.

    so called punk musicians are 100% interchangeable with dinosaur
    rock musicians. They are the same. They all wanted to be little richard
    or chuck berry. The only reason punk wasnt around in 1965 was because
    johnny ramone was like 2 years old then.

    The drummer from The Who was in The Ramones and Blondie
    (and eurythmics and like 10 other bands)
    The lead singer from The Beatles was in Nirvana
    The bassist from Led Zep was in Eagles of Death Metal
    Steve Vai was in PIL
    etc etc

    People that think punk guys cant play are morons.
    Its like saying Keith Moon sucks.

    ambition+talent=rock and roll

  10. fendertx

    fendertx Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Nov 12, 2008
    I dug this clip!

  11. Brad Pittiful

    Brad Pittiful Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Dec 22, 2008
    Philly Burbs
    nice analogies!

  12. A.B.Negative

    A.B.Negative Friend of Leo's

    Aug 26, 2008
    Thank you! :D

  13. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

    I can't believe I skimmed this whole thread.

    My 20 cents:

    - I saw David Johansen in about 1982. Later, when Buster Poindexter came out I noted the strong resemblance, thought it was the same guy, but only now had it confirmed on this thread and then double checked on Wikipedia. Thanks for confirming something that has been nagging at me occasionally for about 38 years.

    - There are a lot of genres of music that generate all kinds of schisms and debates for the people who know it and love it. For people outside the scene it is all pretty much unknown, unknowable, and therefore irrelevant. I was never into punk, so all I've ever known about it is roughly what the average outsider would know. Once upon a time I could deconstruct and critique hard rock bands in great detail and it all seemed so important.

    - I hate it when the critics try to tell me what music to like. I recently saw a very pompous article lamenting as to how today's 20-something kids will go in to a bar and put Taylor Swift on the juke box, with no sense of irony, and will sing along to it and love it. The article was saying how sad it is that kids have been co-opted by the corporations, that they are spoon fed their music, don't know good from bad, etc. In my opinion, that's a totally patronizing, douchey presumption. Kids have access to more music than ever before. There's a simple reason why the big hits are big hits: in most cases they are actually well-written, "hooky" songs performed and produced at the pinnacle of what can be done by professional musicians, producers, and engineers in a modern recording studio with great focus, intent, and purpose. Rather than assume the kids don't know better, maybe they know perfectly well.

    - And that was my primary interaction with the punk scene when I brushed up against it. The cognoscenti would tell me that I really need to listen to X or Y or Z because it was so important and broke all the rules, etc. I would give it a spin and was just not sold on it. But I feel that way about a lot of critically acclaimed performers. For example, I love a lot of jazz, but much of hard bop doesn't do much for me.

    That's what's great about music. There's something for everyone. If someone doesn't like a particular genre of music, or a particular band, rather than assume that they "just don't get it", perhaps it's better to assume that it's kind of like ice cream flavors. Some people like mint chip and some people have tried it but just don't like it. The fact that someone doesn't appreciate mint chip or that their favorite flavor is plain vanilla does not mean they are therefore uncool. "Oh man, that dude likes Bach but hates Bartok. He is so uncool!"

    - As an American who graduated from a NY high school in 1980, my recollection was that the music that came out and up-ended "dinosaur rock" like Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rush, and Yes was stuff like The Police and The Cars, and this new string of hit acts was generally lumped and described by mainstream media into what was called "The New Wave". These were big selling hit bands that generally made simpler, more compact songs that didn't sprawl out for a whole album side, but said their piece in about three minutes.

    "Punk", conversely generated articles in magazines like Time and Newsweek with pictures of people with spiked mohawks and safety pins in their cheeks, but for the most part the bands weren't breaking through to the main stream-- they were a small, niche genre. In contrast, the New Wave actually displaced, replaced, and rendered almost obsolete a lot of the top 70s bands on the charts. Both boys and girls bought their albums, went to their concerts, and put their posters on their bedroom walls. Of course, the early 80s is when MTV started and that had a huge impact on popular music, and "New Wave" evolved into 80s music.

    The only guys I ever met who were into the Ramones at that time were a garage band in town that never got themselves together to play out anywhere. One of the guys was the older brother of a friend of mine, and that's how I met them. Every single guy in the band was a heroin addict....which is probably why they never got their act together.

  14. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

    Aug 14, 2009
    innsmouth, MA

    That's only true in a very small part of a Venn diagram - once you get to us hardcore and UK 82 and postpunk, that really stops being the case.

    How much does the who really have in common with negative approach or d-clone or extreme noise terror?

  15. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

    Aug 14, 2009
    innsmouth, MA

    You really should listen to x!

  16. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

    Aug 14, 2009
    innsmouth, MA
    How about no wave?


  17. DannyStereo

    DannyStereo Poster Extraordinaire

    Aug 13, 2014
    Kelso, Washington
    Clearly, from the other thread, smashing a priceless Martin makes all these other 'punks' look like pansies.

  18. JayJ

    JayJ Tele-Afflicted

    Mar 7, 2012
    Aurora IL
    I used to hold that opinion also. Then I became an adult and accepted that not everyone is going to want to KEEP IT REAL and listen to the music I like. Even Henry Rollins has dropped that attitude. Also, a good deal of music from the 1950's and 60's were just as fabricated, if not more, by corporations.
    I do not care for modern pop music, so I don't listen to it. Simple!

  19. Uncle Joe

    Uncle Joe Friend of Leo's

    Aug 5, 2012
    New Jersey
    As Frank Zappa noted in 1979 on Joe's Garage Crew Slut, "it's a way of life."

    "Punk" has a number of connotations.

    To me, the real Punks were desperate dudes who would do things for drugs and money that few TDPRI contributors would consider. They could barely play their instruments and amid the depravity they made some great Rock & Roll.

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