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Pontiac fact check. (trivial)

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by BobbyZ, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere
    Sure, but I was under the impression we were talking about 60s era American straight 6s'.

    Some of those euro inline engines of the era were equal or even surpassed some of the American V8s

    Jaguar comes to mind.
     
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  2. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    Had a wonderful, wonderful girlfriend while I was in law school who had a '67 Cougar, and other than my rebuilding the carb on that V8 it needed no attention the whole time we were together - before she finished her assignment in N.O. and headed home to Maryland. No complaints of any kind whatsoever from me! :^)
     
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  3. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    Their V-16 was extraordinary!

    upload_2019-1-9_22-10-52.jpeg

    People who are beating up on the big torquey USA straight sixes are missing the point. They were quiet, you could tow with them and get smooth power delivery, the front engine compartment could be narrow and air could get past the grille; the motor was less likely to stall - all kinds of advantages we tend to overlook in our gushing adoration of V-8s and also the typical USA straight six could go without engine overhaul far far longer than something from Jaguar or BMW. And the Mercedes 6 was in fact more like the USA sixes than like those other two, or at least in my view.
     
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  4. chemobrain

    chemobrain Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Nov 5, 2016
    oakland ca.
    my Dad was a wide track pontiac guy and they were road cars .
     
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  5. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    Some straight six motors were torque monsters. Put in a RV cam, bore the cylinders over some, shave the head down some, add split headers into dual exhaust and add a 4 barrel carb or 3 - 2 barrel carbs. Back it up with a 3 speed manual or a 2 speed powerglide automatic and a large number of V8's would find it hard to beat in the quarter mile due to the quick jump off the line, the power to weight ratio and the gearing of the trannies. That's just a street build. I've seen a blown straight six 300CI Ford in a dragster doing 7 second quarters on the Speed Channel a couple years ago. He beat many V8's that were built for drag racing.
    Not every 6 cylinder motor was good for race builds, lots of straight 6 motors and early V6's were worthless, then again, so were a lot of V8's.
     
  6. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere

    Most inline 6 engines are big torque monsters because of the nature of the design.

    The pure race bread engines I can agree with, some of those are highly potent

    Like this maverick with its ford 300 salvaged from a junkyard and not even rebuilt.
    download (6).jpeg

    Runs 10s on a factory ford 300 with a turbo... only upgrades were triple valve springs and a better oil pump I believe...

    But if you do the same to thing to a V8 the V8 will likely be more potent.
     
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  7. uriah1

    uriah1 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Feb 12, 2011
    Around
    I had a convertible pontiac tempest straight 6. Could not afford a LeMans.

    I painted the tires red white and blue in the summer of 76 and made a long road trip.
     
  8. El Tele Lobo

    El Tele Lobo Friend of Leo's

    Oct 21, 2014
    Florida
    Cadillac and some other brands had V-16s in the 30s.
     
  9. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    Lincoln Zephyr.
    Remember the Straight 8's from Cadillac, Buick and Oldsmobile? Great motors if you took good care of them. Some are still going today.
     
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  10. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    My buddy had a 75 Camaro with 350/4 barrel/automatic and lost a drag race on the street to a 67 Mustang with a 300 straight six/RV Cam/3 barrel carb. The look on his face was priceless. However, his latter 69 396 SS Camaro would be a different story.
     
  11. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere
    Gotta remember in 75 engines were stripped of anything resembling performance.... some of them I'd consider unsafe to pull out on the highway...

    That little strait 6 in the mustang was probably equal or even greater in both tourque and horsepower than the 350 in the Camaro thanks to smog pumps, terrible port designs and anemic camshafts and huge combustion chambers and dished pistons...


    But a real 69 396 was a thing of beauty and something understandably feared on the street.

    Mid 70s thru mid 90s was a bad bad time for factory performance.

    1975 gave us a 165hp V8 CORVETTE!

    What a real tire burner lol
     
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  12. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    True that, at least his Camaro didn't have the 305 V8.:lol:

    My 75 Nova 2 door had a 250 straight six with the 350 Turbo Hydromatic tranny. It was a real dog. They killed that engine by integrating the intake and exhaust manifolds into the already heavy cast iron head. I wasn't allowed to get a V8 by my parents. I installed a RV Cam and my brother made a aluminum tunnel adapter to add a small 4 barrel carb, but the exhaust kept it from producing enough HP. When I became 18, it got a built 350 and I converted it to a 4 speed manual. I miss that car.:rolleyes:
     
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  13. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere

    Man that is ironic... my best friend had a 74 2 door nova (the hatch back) that had the 250 in it... someone had put a "huge by large cam a little stall converter and a 4 barrel on a homemade intake and ran 3 1/2 inch exhaust and that thing would burn a tire clean off...

    Wasnt too fast on the top end but it would lay you back through 1st and 2nd.
     
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  14. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    I just unbolted the catalyst converter from the stock exhaust down tube from the motor and removed all the system from there back to the rear of the car. So my open exhaust system ended right under the front passenger seat. It was long enough not hurt the valves. It wasn't too loud....to me anyway. My girlfriend did complain sometimes about the floor board getting hot when driving around a lot.:D The homemade tunnel - ram adapter was about 3 inches tall off the intake with a 500CFM Holley 4 barrel.
    After the V8 install, it got a proper dual exhaust with thrush mufflers.;)

    I knew a mechanic back then that told me about building engines for dirt circle track cars that used straight 6 and 4 cylinder motors. Those guys were constrained to using those motors, so they got real inventive to get the most out of them including swapping internal parts between manufacturers and using V8 pistons and rods. Crazy stuff. Then again he may have been telling some tall tales.:rolleyes:
     
  15. CK Dexter Haven

    CK Dexter Haven Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    57
    Jun 7, 2017
    GCDB
    My Grandfather bought a '78 LeSabre..came thru with a Pontiac engine, my Grandmother was not pleased at all.. "We paid for a Buick I expect a Buick motor" I have a feeling she got some money back, she could be tough w/ a buck.. My parents had a '81 Regal also had a PMD engine, nice car, although it went through a number of cats for some reason.
     
  16. CK Dexter Haven

    CK Dexter Haven Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    57
    Jun 7, 2017
    GCDB
    I worked on a BMW parts counter for a few years in the mid '90s, we still had one tech from back in the "Neu Klasse" era. (he owned a clean 2000 and his DD was a Barvaria) We still had a few customers with 528i's and early coupes He would check the idle on 6cyl tuneups by setting a quarter on the cam cover, if it didn't vibrate, he was happy..
     
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  17. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

    Jan 12, 2011
    Snellman MN
    One area the online sixes fall short of V8s is cubic inches. Ford had a 300ci, Chevy had a 292ci but those were pickup engines as I recall the car engines were smaller, Chrysler's slant six, the big one was only 225ci and AMC's had the 258.
    So pretty much every V8 they get compared to is larger, or just plain built for more performance.

    Now if you want to compare the inline six in my BMW 525i to a V8 car you have to remember 2.5 liters is only 152 cubic inches. It's really unbelievable how a normally aspirated engine that small pulls that big old touring wagon.
    If BMW built a 300ci/ 5 liter, inline 6 with the same technology, it'd really be something!

    Anyway the old Pontiac OHC six was probably the about last try for a performance inline 6 by the US auto manufacturers. Mopar had a slant six that was a bit hotter than their normal one but I think that was gone by 66 or so.
    There was the Hudson Hornet with dual carbs that actually did well against the V8s of the day, early 50s. It was 308ci which was as big or bigger than the early 50s V8s. I think it's safe to say the Hornet was the last inline 6 built in America that could hold its own to it's contemporary V8 counterparts.
    The problem with an inline 6 is while you could build one say at 455ci it would be long and heavy compared to a V8. The pistons would be huge and that limit the rpm potential.
    Actually I'm pretty sure there were some that big or even bigger in trucks, before diesel engines took over that market. Lower rpm torque monsters that ate gasoline.
     
  18. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    I always liked Maverick's, they were so much better looking than those awful Pinto's.
     
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  19. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere
    My favorite ride....

    And much less prone to bursting into flame...
     
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  20. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    I miss Pontiac's. Firebird's, Trans Am's, GTO's, Gran Prix's, LeMans and Ventura's were good looking cars and some of my favorite muscle cars.
     
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