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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Polyester vs. Polypropylene Tone Caps?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Levi Gonzalez, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. SPUDCASTER

    SPUDCASTER Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Way to go Rob, I just lost $10 in the pool. I said you'd post before #20. And I was saving up for a nice PIO cap. Looks like I'm headed to Rat Shack for one of those Mylar models.:lol:
     

  2. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX
    oops, sorry - i'll be more timely next time, and we do know there'll always be another agonizing next time. :D
     

  3. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Jan 21, 2007
    Tucson, AZ
    Yup. There will be. I wish we could do a nationwide pepsi challenge for caps, Ash v. Alder, rosewood v. maple, nitro v. poly, intonation of a 3 saddle and 6 saddle bridge, and see who can tell the difference.
     

  4. Telenut62

    Telenut62 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    57
    Oct 29, 2008
    Eugowra, Australia
    The only 100% certain thing that alters tone are....FINGERS!!!

    ....end of thread :rolleyes:
     

  5. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Jan 21, 2007
    Tucson, AZ
    This thread is ALIVE!!!

    [​IMG]
     

  6. Levi Gonzalez

    Levi Gonzalez Tele-Meister

    365
    May 21, 2011
    US of A
    Please watch...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92G-jw4TqS4

    and

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Hod21pIUI&feature=related


    (By the way, I listened to his raw recordings on his blog, and NOT on youtube (youtube quality sucks for the most part.) through my sony 7506's headphones...YMMV)

    Basically, He gets all these different caps, MEASURES the value (the differences are so small, you wouldn't be able to hear it) but there is a tone change... only logical conclusion would be the material the caps are made from. Even I can hear very subtle tone change through my headphones...
     

  7. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Jan 21, 2007
    Tucson, AZ
    The guy in your video even admitted the difference in measured value will account for tone change.
     

  8. Levi Gonzalez

    Levi Gonzalez Tele-Meister

    365
    May 21, 2011
    US of A
    Did you even watch the same video?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Hod21pIUI&feature=related

    2:30 - 4:13

    His is exact words are...

    "But I don't think those Little differences can totally account for the different sound character we're hearing, between the different material types. Especially in the case were we had the tone pots turned all the way up, the cutoff freq. is very high and yet there still is some differences between the material types, and those differences are more down in the MIDS."

    And those value differences are VERY small. So small, the difference simply cannot be the values.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011

  9. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Dec 29, 2010
    Illinois
    Wow, that's quite a recording rig there:rolleyes:

    See here's the problem with some goober with an opinion trying to do science to back up his claims. The caps he tested ranged from .019 µf to .021 µf (ignoring that .033 / .030 thing that was thrown in for some reason). The .019s are 13.6% off nominal value, the .020s are 9% off nominal. Those are significant variances, and will most certainly vary in tone.

    He keeps saying I think, I think, I think. I think these small variances in value won't effetc tone. That's easily testable, and he didn't bother. I think in the real world there will be dips and valleys in the frequency response. Yes, there will, but are also due to reactive components from the pots, wiring, cables, pickups, and so on. But again easily testable.

    The guy is selling caps, right?
     

  10. Colt W. Knight

    Colt W. Knight Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Jan 21, 2007
    Tucson, AZ
    +1
     

  11. Levi Gonzalez

    Levi Gonzalez Tele-Meister

    365
    May 21, 2011
    US of A
    Your right, he should of said he "Knows" that there is a difference, and I was just busting your chops when I said I heard a difference between the caps.:rolleyes:

    Yes, even I hear the difference. But take the smallest valued cap... "Vintage Yellow" cap .0194uf.

    Before I even watched the youtube video listing the values, I always thought that "vintage yellow" cap had a darker tone in the lower mids...but it has the lowest value????

    And where is he selling caps?
     

  12. coolhandluke

    coolhandluke Former Member

    i thought i WAS able to hear a difference...

    but i noticed i was playin through an amp with NOS Tung Sol Tubes... (you know when you play through an amp and you can hear subtle nuance mistakes in all etc..

    i do think depending on how hi fi & pure your amp rig is,
    there is a difference and you can hear it without magic ears

    but thats just my humble opinion

    funny thing though i don't especially care for the expensive tone caps
     

  13. dgr888

    dgr888 Tele-Meister

    270
    Sep 20, 2010
    moon
    Fezz is right the difference that is "heard" is the very minute differences in the value ONLY. If it is used in a high voltage circuit (ie; bypass caps sending a signal from one stage to another in an amp) a difference in materials can be heard to a minute degree, but also leakage and the small immeasurable differences in capacitance also come in to play. Any cap used as a shunt to ground such as in a guitars tone control any will do. Get a cap that cost a nickel and put it in. The anality of this cap business is gone on too long.......
     

  14. Anchoret

    Anchoret Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2004
    California
    No. Composition is irrelevant in that application.

    In a high-voltage audio circuit, yes, sometimes.

    End of story.
     

  15. Anchoret

    Anchoret Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2004
    California
    Why spend five times more than FMIC does? ;)
    But it will not end in our lifetimes.

    Nor the belief in magic tone cables, magic tone finishes, etc., etc. :rolleyes:
     

  16. 74 Deluxe

    74 Deluxe Tele-Meister

    383
    Jun 27, 2011
    Illinois
    Believe what you want. What I want to know is why you'd spend hundreds of dollars on your guitar and then use the cheapest crap caps and cables? Its like running your Ferrari with bias tires. Crappy cables sound bad. Cheap components, pots included, will at the very least lower the reliability of your guitar. If you don't agree with the mojo, fine. But allow my ears to be the judge of what I put in my guitar. You can do the same with yours...
    [​IMG]
    The subtle difference in tolerances is no more than the difference I get trying to roll my tone down to 7 1/2 ... I can't hit it exactly every time, so I roll it down to where it SOUNDS right. FWIW I think they do differ in sound and I built a box to test caps so I could find out for myself that values and materials do make a difference...
     

  17. dgr888

    dgr888 Tele-Meister

    270
    Sep 20, 2010
    moon
    Materials in a shunt circuit such as how a guitar uses the capacitor have virtually no effect on the sound. It is the leakage of the cap which causes a very slight variations on the tone even when your control is all the way up. Even when the control is all the way up there is some bleeding to ground of certain frequencies. The frequency response of the leakage is different for ALL caps and also changes(the leakage response) depending on where the control is set. The tone control which is a 250k resistor and cap are an RC network and this combination also have an effect on the leakage response. The Fender no load control takes the network completely off ground which makes for a perceived increase in high end response....
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2011

  18. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Age:
    71
    Mar 3, 2003
    NJ via TX
    i wouldn't assemble/build a guitar that didn't have a no-load tone pot. modding a cts pot to no-load is too easy.
     

  19. Levi Gonzalez

    Levi Gonzalez Tele-Meister

    365
    May 21, 2011
    US of A
    Which materials do you find sound best? What has been your experience?
     

  20. sjtalon

    sjtalon Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    kin I b next
     

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