Please help with 72 thinline manufacturing dates

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by Johnnypops, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    Hi Tele friends.

    I've purchased a '72 thinline but the serial dates it as made in 1970 as its in the 28s 6 digit serial with large F 4 bolt neck. Tuxedo finish in lacquer finish with WRHB pups.
    Does anyone know exactly when Fender started selling with the humbuckers? Info tells me Seth started in 1970 and this is probably late 1970. Guitar hasn't arrived yet to pull apart and see what dates I've actually bought. But rosewood neck, humbuckers, double binding and 1970 serial make it all a bit of a mystery to me.
    It has truly been stored under a bed for 15 years and he guys has just chosen to sell it.
    Not sure what it is or how original but I love it.

    Neck looks genuine, hardware looks genuine but it might be refinished body although the chequering certainly makes it look like it might be original. I will know soon enough when it arrives but thought someone might be able to categorically tell me that the Seth Lovers weren't around until 71 etc. or maybe the serial high 28s puts it early 71 not 70 like the serial intel I have tells me.
     

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  2. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    I hate to tell you this - but that's not original.

    No bound bodies. No 4-bolt neckplate. It should have a ovalled teardrop 3-bolt plate with microtilt adjustment and a bullet truss rod adjuster.

    If you haven't paid much might be a player bargain. If they're real Seth Lovers it's maybe worth $8-900 in bits.

    You might have some original parts but that isn't a Thinline II.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  3. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    Thanks Dacious

    I’m aware of all of those things and the 4 bolt neck and the body might all be genuine as they went to 3 bolt after 1970 both the pups don’t seem to match the year although I have also heard there were some made in 71 I’m not sure about 70
    I have also been told that there were some thinline Ii made with 4 bolt necks but only for very short period of time, I think I got that off the fender website

    I suspect when it gets to me that it’s going to be likely that it’s been refinished and the pups have been retrofitted
    A vintage guitar shop has told me today that there were some with rosewood necks so will be interesting to pull it down and see what I’ve got
    I paid a fair bit for it but not stupid money as I love the look
    The spare set of strings in the case are looking like they are easily 40 years old
     
  4. adjason

    adjason Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I hope those are real vintage wide range humbuckers...
     
  5. toomuchfun

    toomuchfun Tele-Holic

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    In the Duchossoir book he says Seth Lover finalized the WRHB in the course of 1970 and first appeared on Fender instruments after mid 1971.

    Please take photos of the underside of the pick ups, any numbers on the pots and any markings on the heel of the neck. It would also be interesting to see under the bridge cover too.

    Could be the angle of the photo, but the headstock decal looks a little off to me (looks like more distance between the copyright mark and the other lettering). Here's my '75 for comparison.

    75_thinline-hs.jpg
     
  6. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    I’m just organizing freight so should have it later in the week
    The guy I bought it from doesn’t play guitar and had it given to him
    I’m trying to find out who gave it to him and will update as soon as I get it and will take it to vintage guitar store and get them to pull it down and tell me what it is
     
  7. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    I have found out that rosewood necks were available as a customer order as were colors other than natural and sunburst
    I’m optimistic about what I hope it might be but also realistic that it probably isn’t what I hope it is. For that serial number nothing makes sense but I’m certain it not a fake but might have seen some new parts before my guy got it
     
  8. Matthias

    Matthias Tele-Afflicted

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    It looks like a nice guitar. However, it doesn't fit any common models and that hardware looks like it's been sandpapered to relic it, including those pickups. I query wether that decal should look like it's sitting on top of the finish, too. I think it's likely a partscaster with some Fender parts... But once again, it looks nice whatever!
     
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  9. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Friend of Leo's

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    The finish is well checked--didn't they move to poly by 68-69? Does poly check like that?
     
  10. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    Thanks Matthias. I've emailed Fender to see if they have any idea about it but given the rarity of the rosewood necks it might be that the decals were laid up different at the time.

    My wildest dream is that it might have been a preproduction run that got stripped down and simplified as finished thinline 2 product that eventually was released but unlikely, ... or it's most likely a partscaster, however the guy I got this from did tour with BIG bands and I've been easliy able to verify that side of things and a whole lot of other cool stuff in his music career and was given this as a gift so really could be anything but most likely a guitar that was worked over in the 70s or 80s and made up of bits and pieces but relicing wasn't really a thing at that time AFAIK and he's had it an awful long time.
     
  11. 63telemaster

    63telemaster Tele-Meister

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    Unfortunately from what the op has said, I believe this is a case of a totally unscrupulous seller trying to pass off a fairly new partscaster with a story. At best, misrepresentation, at worst fraud.

    I hope you've got some sort of buyer protection for this.
     
  12. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    Hi Telemaster I hear you and know it’s possible but the guy I bought it from is quite famous in music industry so don’t expect that unles the film producer who gave it to him many years ago was having a laugh
    My seller did all of the filming including the on screen projector stuff for Pink Floyd pulse so I have reasonable confidence in him
    He also did loads of uk 90s Clips for oasis, pulp verve etc
     
  13. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Friend of Leo's

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    Well it will be great to see photos of neck, neck pocket, pickups, pots, and all that. That will help a lot in identification, but not answer all.
     
  14. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    I’m loving just how it Even has ancient strings and curly cord, makes me fairly confident the vendor is straight up but obviously will get local guitar emporium to break it down and let me know dates etc when I get it in my hands next week

    They looked and at photos and said it’s all possible as they’ve seen lacquer after 69 but it’s got a lot going on and chances of it all being original are Unlikely and it might all be real but modified and refinished

    At the very least I know it’s been played by the guitarist of a band that had number one hit songs in Australia because I have the photos to prove that
     

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  15. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    I agree
    The vendor is trying to find out the name of the guy who gave it to him because he gifted it as a present for a family photo shoot and shoot was organized through another film guy he knew so he’s going to ring him to find out who he was
    If I can get to him I might be able to find out more

    Could have been a film prop for all I know about it at the moment but I do know it does play
     
  16. rob2

    rob2 Tele-Holic

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    ...interesting....
    The neck may be a 70's,the bit of weathering on the headstock and theose are sharper edges than an MIM
    As pointed out,that decal looks to be added later.
    The tuners seem v wrong...pre about '76 these have to be locally sourced Race and Olmstead....nickle shaft,chrome buttons and rest.They also have a noticeable dish on the top of the shaft,not dead flat like here...
    The buttons tend to stay bright....both shaft and button look artifically aged...
    Bushings are wrong,should be thinner,nickle plated...check all these details against Toomuchfun's lovely '75 photo
    No back view but the tuner cover should have the shaft base poking out...the later Schallers had a die-cast unit under the casing.
    The scratchplate is not late '60's early '70's Fender tort...looks like decent quality Chinese aftermarket stuff...I have a sheet of it here...
    Those are RI pickups,not Seths....the polepieces are nothing like the originals which are wider,fit better,more dished with broader slots...plus the threads don't come up so far on the polepieces.
    Looks like somebody forgot to relic the screws there...
    Re the body etc everything Dacious pointed out as well.
    The finishes of the time can crack but usually in straight lines more like stress cracking than pure nitro checking....you can get some interesting patterns but usually not the sought after "vintage nitro" check
    Please keep us posted but don't get your hopes up and consider being ready to look for redress if you're not satisfied.
     
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  17. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Friend of Leo's

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    It is a looker though...
     
  18. Johnnypops

    Johnnypops TDPRI Member

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    Wow, thanks soooo much. I would have no idea about any of that. I dispatch a huge amount for it which is good.

    I have shot of back of headstock and it might be a recent fake but I really don’t think this guy would fake the story and risk a scandal to his reputation for a couple thousand bucks.
    I’m soo itching to get it here and get it apart
     

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  19. rob2

    rob2 Tele-Holic

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    ....those are Schaller type,reissues or post '76.Looks like the plating has been sanded off too...I've seen it flaked off but never smoothly sanded like this.
    This old photo here shows the early type(front,fully dismantled)and a post '76 Schaller at the back..I didn't dismantle as the copper retainer is a pain!
    You can also see the extra hole,essentially a bearing,in the older model casing. DSCN1637.JPG DSCN1637.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  20. Matthias

    Matthias Tele-Afflicted

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    Is this definitely not a custom shop relic? That would explain an odd mix of features, a weird serial AND a trustworthy seller.

    That case looks pretty legit but could be an 80s reissue, I suppose? However is that case candy consistent with a 1970 instrument? Maybe the neck and neck plate share a history with the case...

    At worst this is a a very tastefully designed partscaster with some decent parts from what I can see. Hopefully it plays well. Take some pics of the insides if you can!

    EDIT - just saw the new posts... no custom shop logo... Partscaster with good bits, I think.
     
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