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Please help! 1970 Rosewood Tele CONCERNS

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by TVmodel, Aug 31, 2017.

  1. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    58
    24
    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey
    I'm ot an expert on these at all but...

    I have NEVER seen surgical tubing on 1970's tele neck pickups. Also, those two filled dowel holes in the neck pickup caviuty look strange to me-
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    What do you guys think of neck pocket?
    [​IMG]
     

  2. Old Tele man

    Old Tele man Tele-Afflicted

    May 10, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    CNC "alignment" holes for keeping the front-center-back wood panels aligned.
     

  3. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    58
    24
    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey
    other concerns:
    "mirror image" of serial number and "F" on the rear of neck plate (I've never seen this)
    no evidence of gassing under neck plate
    lack of fade under guard
    Pickguard looks cut wrong and I have my doubts about it being Fender at all (guard is not cut right near bridge (instead of being cut straight, there is a slight angle on the guard
    one changed pot and non original case ( these things happen, I know....just a lot of stuff starting to add up)
    weird extended stem on high "E" tuner....
    3 of the 4 screw holes on the back of the neck attaching he neck to the body are stripped
    stripped screws on neckplate...

    If it's an issues guitar, fine...I paid a decent price) but if it's not right I'd like to know so I can return it...thanks
     

  4. VintageSG

    VintageSG Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Mar 31, 2016
    Huddersfield, UK
    Replacement pickup?.
    Is it a case queen?, there's next to no visible wear on the frets or neck lacquer. The scratchplate seems remarkably unscratched too.
    I'd expect some sort of neck pocket stampings/markings. Looks, I dunno, 'fresh'
    More pictures!
     
    Don Mac likes this.

  5. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    58
    24
    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey
    So shose dowel holes are correct? I believe there may be similar dowels under lead pickup but the plate screws are so stripped I don't want to go remove it
     

  6. bparnell57

    bparnell57 Poster Extraordinaire

    Feb 10, 2014
    Philadelphia, PA
    Guess CME is back at it...

    Edit: this is a bit harsh. I apologize. Hopefully the guitar is as described.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017

  7. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    58
    24
    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey
    Case was non original....I used my own case in pics I had in photo on previous thread.
    I know rosewood teles are rare birds so I don't applky all of the "rules"; there is no neck date but I believe thats ok for a '70.
     

  8. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    58
    24
    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey

    I wouldn't go there....
    CME has always treated me fair....the days when Scott S. ran the place have been long gone/. When Scott owned CME it was questionable at best.
    CME of today's guys are pros and has and deserves a great reputation. I'm offered a refund in full if i don't like the guitar.

    So....I'm not worried about that.
     

  9. warrent

    warrent Tele-Meister

    160
    Sep 15, 2009
    toronto
    They hollowed out the rosewood to lessen the weight. The maple dowels in the neck pocket and bridge cavity were used to align the body parts. The custom shop reissues don't have dowels.
     
    jazzmaster90150 and bparnell57 like this.

  10. xafinity

    xafinity Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Dec 24, 2015
    west of I-10
    Nothing unusual about vinyl tubing 'springs' on pickups.
     
    Doug 54 likes this.

  11. bparnell57

    bparnell57 Poster Extraordinaire

    Feb 10, 2014
    Philadelphia, PA
    Yes. Looking back at my statement, especially since the creation of reverb, I've been done nothing but good by the fine folks at CME. I apologize for my harsh and inappropriate statement.
     
    jazzmaster90150 and theprofessor like this.

  12. VintageSG

    VintageSG Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Mar 31, 2016
    Huddersfield, UK
    I found the other thread. Nice looking guitar!.
    There seem to be a fair few molested screw heads. Is it a trick of the camera or are the tuner screws a little, 'chewed'
    Some parts look new, like the scratchplate. The neck plate is very shiny, as is the bridge. Nothing particularly suspicious, they just stood out. I'd expect them to develop some sort of patina over time.
    Bit of work, replace some screws that have been attacked by the screw worm and enjoy.
     

  13. Antoon

    Antoon Tele-Holic

    633
    Feb 10, 2010
    Low Lands
    I am quite sure that neck pickup is an aftermarket replacement (perhaps you knew this already). The pickguard is for sure not cut like fender did on regular production models in 1970. In the pics the guard even looks quite new. But perhaps rosewood teles were different. Stripped screws are a *****. Rosewood compresses very little so perhaps fender had to drill all holes a tad wider to prevent the wood from splitting when the screws were driven in? Wider holes are easier stripped..
     

  14. Dacious

    Dacious Friend of Leo's

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Neck pickup could be a replacement or maybe rewind bobbin and cover and wiring look ok - but just 'cause the guitar is clean doesn't mean it's not legit. I agree the pickguard looks not quite right but a Rosewood Tele is really almost handbuilt, non-production item - In 70 I think the standard guard may have been white which probably looked like ass. So maybe this was handcut at the time?
     

  15. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    58
    24
    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey
    This is a really salient and remarkable (good!) quote...Personally, I think the guitar is real....
    However, there are enough red flags that caused me concern. However, these weren't manufactured en masse. (so I think you make a great point here.)

    I'm not a nitpicker...I realize a 47 year old guitar is what it is. Here are that issues that concern me-

    1) 3 of screw holes at neck plate are totally stripped inside
    2) mirror image of the serial number and the "F" on the plate on the reverse side...never seen that before...
    3)surgical tubing on neck pickup adjustment screws; springs were used by 1970
    4) weird dowel marks in pickup cavities
    5) neck pickup does not look correct
    6) pick guard is not Fender; no doubt about it. Pick guard cut is angled up at slot for bridge plate
    7) Bridge plate screws are stripped on top from improperly removing screws, probably w/electric screwdriver
    8) strange extended large stem on high "E" tuner
    9) no sign or evidence of "gassing" under neck plate
    10) no sign of any fade under the guard
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017

  16. Dacious

    Dacious Friend of Leo's

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    I think the screw/hole condition is easily explained by as you say, butchery of the battery drill kind.

    The finish - may not be conventional acrylic lacquer, rosewood can be tough to finish I believe due to oils. They may have used a catylsed conversion finish like Ric used. The neck plate looks too regular and sharp to be faked - could be it just took a hit with die pressure set too high. Stranger things happened at Fender (L series for instance). I haven't seen the back of enough except my 78 and NOS on my '69 RI.

    A lot of inconsistency may be explained by it's uniqueness. It was probably walked through the wood shop, finishing, hardware by a foreman or leading hand, probably skipped a lot of QC.

    I remember reading the account of the two Rosewood Teles one for Harrison and a spare and two Strats they made (apparently despite Leo saying no to the endorsement request initially, CBS intended to present Hendrix with a Strat). The guy who worked there at the time CBS was making changes was an assistant to the factory manager.
     

  17. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    58
    24
    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey
    I just read that the maple dowels in the lead and neck pickup cavities are absolutely correct; as stated by a reader above, they were indeed used for alignment. "These dowels were meant to ensure a correct alignment of the hollowed out body halves sandwiching the thin maple core strip." It's in the Duchossoir Telecaster book...which I have around here..somewhere)...



    so...to me...that's big! I'm feeling better now.
     
    jazzmaster90150 likes this.

  18. TVmodel

    TVmodel TDPRI Member

    Age:
    58
    24
    Aug 25, 2017
    Hoboken, New jersey

    Thank you! This was big in helping me!
     

  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    57
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    Have you still not removed the bridge plate?
    The bridge pickup looks wrong, just to add one more annoyance.
    FWIW, vintage Tele bridge pickups are a favorite of mine.
    Pull the bridge and show pics!
     

  20. warrent

    warrent Tele-Meister

    160
    Sep 15, 2009
    toronto
    Your Welcome

    I haven't scene any fakes
    No problem
    the finish is Satin Poly

    you can compare yours to the pictures on this overpriced listing:
    on this one the guard was changed as well.
    https://reverb.com/ca/item/106686-fender-rosewood-telecaster-vintage-original-rare

    It is a one piece neck right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017

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