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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Pine bodies - why did they not continue them?

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by Geoff738, Jun 15, 2007.

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  1. Telemach_1

    Telemach_1 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    59
    Jun 2, 2009
    Somewhere in the woods of
    Hmm, from your description it must be similar to alder. What's the weight compared to other woods?
     

  2. '56Teleman

    '56Teleman Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Feb 25, 2006
    Lindenhurst, IL
    Even moreso than alder.

    Like other woods, weight depends on the individual body. My double bound pine body was 3 pounds, 3 ounces, the pine Fat Tele body is a few ounces heavier. I've also seen bodies under 3 pounds.

    Sugar pine appears to be consistently lighter than other species.
     

  3. cband7

    cband7 Friend of Leo's

    Oct 27, 2007
    Thule, Greenland
    Oh, right! The one with the vintage brass saddles and string through body! The bolt on neck made it easy to repair when you smashed it after the solo! :eek:


    .
     

  4. Telemach_1

    Telemach_1 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    59
    Jun 2, 2009
    Somewhere in the woods of
    Scuse senior, are you talking Kilos or U.S. pounds? I just took my lightest ash Tele from the kitchen balance and it read sensational 6,6 pounds equal to 3 Kilos.
    So that pine tele is half the weight of my SB feather? WOW!!!!

    But wait a minute. IO've once test ridden a Squier 50ies CV and it was awfully heavy. Do I confuse things?
     

  5. chezdeluxe

    chezdeluxe Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    67
    Dec 29, 2007
    Brisbane Australia
    I believe he is referring to the weight of "Bodies" only not complete guitars..My CV50s weighs 3.43 kg i.e 7 lb 9 oz so some are not as heavy as others.
     

  6. Geo

    Geo Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    68
    Mar 17, 2003
    Hendersonville, TN
    I don't think the wood type matters as much as the specific gravity (density sort of)
    and whether kiln dried or how well. Certainly sap could be an issue even if kiln dried.

    Then one has to consider what or who makes dents in guitar bodies?

    I've seen all kinds and weights of wood bodies get damaged over the years
    due to negligence or accidents.
     

  7. Oakville Dave

    Oakville Dave Friend of Leo's

    Aren't the original series of Squier CV Telecasters built with pine bodies? From what I've read about them, they seem like an inexpensive way to get into "pinecasters"! Check out this link at arguably the most influential and knowledgeable guitar store in Canada, Toronto's 12th Fret -

    http://www.12fret.com/new/Squier_Telecaster_Classic_Vibe_pg.html

    Rock On

    Oakville Dave
     

  8. Billy Bones

    Billy Bones Tele-Meister

    Age:
    42
    244
    Nov 15, 2009
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Telemach_1,

    I'm doing some testing right now. There are a few variables that I'm working through. I had bridge pickups that were wound a little too hot for my tastes, I like weaker pickups with alnico 3 magnets, and the ones I had handy were wound with alnico 5's. A friend brought by a partscaster he'd made with one of his own pickups in it (Dave Leddin, check out his tele bridge pickups, he's a winder from Vancouver, BC who is making really, really great tele pups) Dave's tele sounded amazingly warm and full. He had a four way switch that made the tele sound super tough in one of the "both pups together so it's almost a humbucker" positions.

    His guitar body was alder, his Bridge was steel with Brass saddles, .47 cap, 500 kohm pots, bone nut - and it sounded fantastic.

    My guitar body was pine, Bridge was alluminum with steel saddles, .22 cap, 250 kohm pots, bone nut - and it sounded high and piercing.

    I assumed that the main tone problem was the alnico 5's in the bridge pickup, so he brought me one of his pups the next day and we swapped it. Same "too many highs, not enough lows" tone. Swapped the cap, same tone. I'm thinking it's down to the pine body (don't think so, but maybe), the brass saddles (should make his more shrill, not less) the aluminum bridge plate (maybe) or the 500kohm pots (likely?)

    I'm sorry for the ramble, but all of that is to say, right now the pine bodied tele I have sounds too shrill. Next week I'll know if it's the body, the pickup, the pots, the cap, the saddle material, or the bridge material.

    Anyone else here want to comment on the tone difference between 250 and 500 kohm pots in tele bridges? I usually put 250's in single coils, but Dave is using 500's and says he loves him, and I can't argue with his tele tone.

    Billy
     

  9. '56Teleman

    '56Teleman Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Feb 25, 2006
    Lindenhurst, IL
    Billy Bones,

    The bound pine Tele I posted earlier has Don Mare's Super Sport alnico V bridge and S-Telly neck. I used CTS 250k audio taper pots and a .047 paper in oil Vitamin Q cap from All Parts. It's not overly bright at all...change the cap in your guitar.

    Telemach 1,

    The body alone is 3 pounds, 3 ounces. The whole guitar on a USPS scale is 6 pounds, 1 ounce.
     

  10. Hollmanp90

    Hollmanp90 Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 10, 2009
    Hamilton County
    I'm w/the above........change da' cap and go with some brass saddles.
     

  11. eyerish

    eyerish Tele-Holic

    781
    May 24, 2009
    Arizona USA
    My Esquire type pine body came from Reddirt in Texas and its as hard as anything I have ever played. I am not easy on it either. It scratches but no dents yet. I just put 2 thin coats of laquer and sanded it most of the way back off. heres a pic
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The CV50 I have is very heavy. the finish on the otherhand is very brittle. It was on the stand and tipped over. Not fell but tipped and landed on a cardboard box. The box was dented but like an M&M candy shell a paint chip came off in a thousand pieces. pics to follow.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I am filling in as best I can with some "Vanilla" colored stuff I had from some time back that I used to refinish some wooden kids toys.
     

  12. '56Teleman

    '56Teleman Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Feb 25, 2006
    Lindenhurst, IL
    +1

    I didn't notice the saddles, get some brass on that bridge along with the new cap.
     

  13. Billy Bones

    Billy Bones Tele-Meister

    Age:
    42
    244
    Nov 15, 2009
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Yeah Teleman, I forgot to mention, I put an orange drop on there and it brought a little bit of the highs down, but it is too shrill. I am going to see what brass saddles do for myself, and I have some graphtech ones to try as well, but I expect the brass to add highs not take them away. Should have done this yesterday instead of spending the whole day working on pinball machines!
     

  14. '56Teleman

    '56Teleman Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Feb 25, 2006
    Lindenhurst, IL
    Billy, the steel saddles will give a brighter tone than brass.

    So, you're a Pinball Wizzard?
     

  15. Billy Bones

    Billy Bones Tele-Meister

    Age:
    42
    244
    Nov 15, 2009
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I'll do the legwork this week. I love the look of brass saddles.

    Well, I know a couple pinball wizards. I'm a pinball guy, and I do own the Tommy Pinball Wizard pinball machine. But compared to real pinball wizards I'm a hack. I'd take anybody on at Tommy.

    Billy
     

  16. stephent2

    stephent2 Poster Extraordinaire

    Jun 22, 2003
    Georgia/Minnesota
    I've enjoyed working w/ pine, I have a couple more on the bench but here's a couple,..

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

  17. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    I think Leo took a couple of the early Pine bodied guitars out and in disguise, played a few shows.

    He decided he didn't like the way pine sounded and it wasn't holding up well, so he decided to dump his stash of pine on the home builders' trade.

    His pine went into building a house my cousin Covey and his bride bought in late 1950.

    They think the house (in Banning) sounds much better now than when it was new.

    ;)
     

  18. Telemach_1

    Telemach_1 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    59
    Jun 2, 2009
    Somewhere in the woods of
    Billy_Bones,
    I've been a strong ambassador of the "The neck says it all" experience since appx. 1982 Off course there are a view other variables that add, but that has nothin' to do w. the guitar's tonal character. Changing those back and forth will not compensate for a weak combo.
    In real life you'll have good and bad guitars. There are dull or shrill protagonists within a model line and on some very few occasions you'll run into a guitar that is just right.
    Like we learned to do in modern western society, Necks and bodies of Fender style guitars may get divorced. A good neck might part from a weak body to find an other home and vice versa. Buying her noble metal and fancy electronical components will probably not help your happy home.

    In your case I would experiment w. a bunch of bodies and necks if you can get some or already have them in your laboratory ;).

    I've been fiddling again w. necks and bodies for the last 5 days and it's amazing to see how much a neck does to a guitar. The body is not unimportant too but is more what I would call the spice on top of the meat.
    I don't think that you have a pine problem. I assume that the neck is what you should focus on. A dull neck can be altered to sound more treble to a certain extend but it's much harder to alter it the opposite way around.
    I would start w. an ebony nut then switching to alum. saddles or simply keep the brass tons (brass is soft and absorbs trebles)
    PU wise you're right alnico 2 or 3 magnets may help a little if you adjust them farther away from the strings.
    And last not least try a cheapo alder body. But that ain't a garantie for less trebles. There are exceptions everywhere. Alder can be quite trebly and twangy in some occasions. But generally it will shave off the peak highs and will enphasize mids iof you're lucky.
    Good luck.
     

  19. '56Teleman

    '56Teleman Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    61
    Feb 25, 2006
    Lindenhurst, IL
    I agree, Telemach_1, I have a Tele that had two different bridges and two different sets of pickups and it was a dud, that traditional Tele tone just wasn't there. It sounded like a blanket was thrown over the amp. I finally sold the neck, bought a new one and the guitar came alive.

    I also feel that steel saddles and a .022 cap can add some unwanted zing.
     

  20. Telemach_1

    Telemach_1 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    59
    Jun 2, 2009
    Somewhere in the woods of
    Yepp! The reason why the old brass barrels are favored is not because of the brass material. It's their weight that contributes to the twang.
    If you really want some nitro in the mix, pump up your twang w. big barrel steel or stainless saddles.
     

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