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Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by Wally, Nov 10, 2017.
What do you think about the lead dress here????
It's not pretty. How's it work?
Right.... There are a lot of things that "I" would do different because thats just who I am. I have seen way worse, look into some later silver face chassis.... You know what I mean.
If it sounds good it is good.
Could be better. Shorten some of the excess wires and tuck in some of the others and it will look much better. Of course, if it’s quiet you might just leave well enough alone!
I like the side brackets, good idea.
Doesn't look like art work or anything, but if it runs fine I wouldn't fuss about it.
Looks like wires go from one point to another.
How's it sound ?
The amp is not...and will not be...mine. I do not like the lead dress at all. This amp is for sale with a
note that it was built by a former Fender employee from the ??'70's/?? iirc. I have seen a large number of Fender amps and have never seen one laid out as poorly as this clone was done.
Here is a pic of perhaps the best lead dress on a Fender I have ever seen.....
By a 70s era employee, huh?
Guts of a '79 Bassman 10 as an example of late 70s Fender wiring.
Lead dress is an art. And I've always been more of a scientist than an artist. I try my best, and each build gets a little better, I hope.
As for the one in the OP, I'm firmly in the "If it sounds good, it's OK" camp. Heater twists could be tighter.
Just because they were a Fender employee, does not mean they worked in the amp wiring department, right? LOL
It seems like there's enough extra wire there to do another clone....
Lead dress either causes problems or not.
If it isn’t causing any issues with noise or any other kinky problems, then it’s doing it’s job.
However, to people who view gut shots of every build thread posted here, we see people who are very meticulous and some who are sloppy.
We tend to judge as a measure experience that the meticulous lead dress means a better amp, but we all know that is likely not the case.
I don’t see anything about the OP picture that couldn’t be cleaned up in a few hours, if you really liked the amp.
there is a local "amp designer" by the name of 'Doug MacAlister' who is extremely persnickety about NOT having wires "all neat as if done by a military employee fixing his bed" because it "affects the tone".... I call bullshi@ but I'm not an amp builder. Could anyone explain why someone might say that without using either big words in electrical engineering or psychiatry...???
Well, the inside of an amp is a beehive of noise. Hum, signal, etc. Anyone who has screwed up lead dress enough to provoke an oscillation knows that wire placement matters, and some runs are sensitive to that field of noise. So, could a little crosstalk from not having wires being precisely placed or such have a positive effect? Perhaps? I'm not weighing in on either side, but he may have noticed something he likes.
Everyone is entitled to their take on that wiring job. My take is that I don’t like the looks of it. For the sake of the debate, how about this? Say the amp sounds fantastic, but....since things happen...there is a need to work on the circuit in certain areas and certain ‘lead dress’ has to be disturbed to get at the area or areas. One had best take pictures from more than one angle so as to be able to get those wires back into their original positions. Of course, this is true of any circuit, but this one has more wiring that obstructs access than most circuits do and the dress job is so haphazard that there is not any certain plan that is easily remembered as is in that circuit I showed above.
I prefer neatly wired circuits. I posit that Leo Fender observed that circuits are best done with some concern for lead dress. And....I would bet that he was concerned enough with financial expenditures that he would not want to waste that much wire to build one amp.
This amp is for sale at $1400. Maybe it is worth it to someone?? If so, contact me and I’ll link you to the sale. No affiliation..
There's obviously a few schools of thought on wire dress. However, when wires are laid out with no obvious regard for function or to keep hum at bay (signal leads laying atop high current wires like power supply or heaters), or AC bundled with sensitive DC leads, it becomes obvious that there may be an amateur at work.
That's my beef with the original amp, there's so much extra wire associated with the PT, mains, and power supply mixed in with the power tube and bias wiring that I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least some hum.
I really admire how someone can wire up an amp with such precision, bends and routing and solder joints all perfect and shiny shaped like little bee hives.
As I said earlier, we get to see dozens of builds a year around here, and we all look at the precision some builders are capable of with respect and even envy.
Most I think would agree that a sloppy rats nest is ugly and hard to look at without wanting to comment negativity.
Now, having said all that, most of us have seen a rats nest that works fine, sounds fine.
Again, most people around here can handle a soldering iron and snippers, so if you liked the amp and the price, in a few hours you could clean up the long leads, twist some wires, and make it look fairly decent.
That was my only point.
If I were buying an amp and Wally said pass on it, it looks like crap, I wouldn’t hesitate to pass on it.
I don't think that wiring is so great. It may work just fine, but here's the way I like to build 'em. Of course, if I did this for a living I'd loose my shirt. It takes me a long time.