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Non-conversion 24.75 Tele neck

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Philbert_S, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. Philbert_S

    Philbert_S TDPRI Member

    38
    Feb 8, 2015
    Illinois
    Hi All,

    I’ve got an unfinished body, which I have not yet routed for pickups or drilled for a bridge. Rather than build the body to usual 25.5 in scale length specs and use a conversion neck, I’d like to use an actual 24.75 in scale length neck.

    All I have been able to find are Tele conversion necks. Does anyone know of someone who sells a 24.75 in scale, bolt on neck?

    Cheers,

    Philbert
     

  2. PeterUK

    PeterUK Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 4, 2003
    Nottingham, UK
    I’m not sure what you are asking. Warmoth makes a 24.75” scale length Tele-style neck and it converts the scale length from the traditional/normal 25.5” to 24.75”, normally associated with Gibson guitars.

    http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/Tele_ConversionNeck.aspx

    The Warmoth necks are a direct fit onto a normal Tele body, they bolt on and when you measure the scale length from nut to saddles, it will be 24.75”.

    I’m interested in trying one myself, hence why I clicked on your post.

    :) Peter
     
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  3. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2011
    Tucson
    I'm confused too, by the implication that a conversion neck is not an actual 24 3/4" scale. It is. If you DO NOT want to place the bridge in the same place it would go if the guitar had a 25.5" scale, you could then use a neck other than what is normally called a "conversion neck." I made my second Tele with a 24 3/4 scale neck and it's one of my favorites. Here's the diagram if you want it. With this or the one Warmoth sells, it bolts right into a standard Tele body and it is a real, no kidding 24 3/4" scale.

    Good luck,
    Rex
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Philbert_S

    Philbert_S TDPRI Member

    38
    Feb 8, 2015
    Illinois
    Hi guys,

    Thanks for the responses. Here was my thought process.

    The distance from the bridge to the nut should be 24.75, right? If the body has already been drilled for 25.5, we need to change the neck length alone. We can’t also move the bridge around.

    So I guess my question is: don’t the pickups end up at a different relative distance from the bridge or nut than they would if it was built totally as a 24.75 scale length? I seem to remember something about putting the neck pickup in particular at a ”sweet spot” or “node”.

    Maybe I’m overthinking this.


    Thanks!
     

  5. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County
    I built a Gibson scale tele neck and fit it to one of my fender scale bodies. I used longer screws on the saddles to move the additional 3/8 that was needed. I bought some metric RC car screws. You would have to check and see if the bridge could accommodate the extra room needed. My feeling, based on the physics is that there is no "sweet spot" only a spot that may sound good to one person over another. The harmonics change position as you move up the neck changing the " scale length", so every spot will work depending on what note is fretted. My opinion is that it just a matter of getting the pickups as far apart from each other to make a difference between bass and treble enhancements.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  6. tfarny

    tfarny Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 4, 2008
    Hudson Valley, NY
    There is no sweet spot or node for pickups. It's bunko. Poster above said it right. You can get 24.75 necks from Musikraft as well as Warmoth, just btw.
     
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  7. Philbert_S

    Philbert_S TDPRI Member

    38
    Feb 8, 2015
    Illinois
    Got you. Thanks for all the replies!



    I
     

  8. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    66
    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    I love my Warmoth 24.75" conversion neck. I went with "fatback" profile, 1 11/16" at nut....despite "smallish" hands, I like a substantial, chunky neck....sometimes I wish I had gone with a 1 3/4" width. I, too, don't understand OP's concern. Other than my fat, mahogany neck having a solid, sweet sound and feel, the electric sound is the same as before. But MAN!...is it comfortable!
     
    PeterUK likes this.

  9. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    The scale is fixed and doesn't move when fretting the strings. Your only playing the notes at a determined pitch within the scale that stays fixed. The sweet spot for pickup placement is subject to ones idea of the sweet spot. Many people dislike the neck pickup when it's placed at the 24th fret area, so they will place above or below that mark. Lots of people don't like the bridge pickup to be so close to the bridge because of overly bright tone and will place their pickups further away.
     

  10. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County

    Agreed. A scale length is determined by the nut and saddle distance. The frets are "nuts". That's why you can have a zero fret and a string guide behind it.

    You'll notice I put scale length in " quotes". Want a shorter scale neck? ....lop off the fretboard at a fret or two and that changes the " scale length". Check into the 34 bass scale and compare that to the telecaster scale, and the duo sonic scale. All share the measurements at some point. Theoretically that way you only need one gang saw for multiple scale lengths during manufacturing if you slotted necks that way. The 24th fret on a 34 scale bass is 25.5 inches from the nut ( tele scale)


    scale.png



    As you play up the neck you create a new temporary " scale length". The harmonics move with it. Lots of people have preferences and that's what should determine where the pickups go....but most using a position that some manufacturer uses.

    http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/Lesson-4/Harmonics-and-Patterns


    http://www.zonguitars.com/zonguitars/hyperbass.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  11. edvard

    edvard Tele-Holic

    801
    May 15, 2016
    Bremerton, WA
    Warmoth makes a 24.75" scale neck built especially for their 7/8 bodies that only comes in one headstock design ('Warhead'). It is NOT a conversion neck. Basically, it's a standard Fender-size neck, but with the frets laid out for 24.75" scale. Check it out:
    http://blog.warmoth.com/2015/11/17/shrunken-the-78-story/

    And to answer your question, yes, doing something like this moves the bridge and pickup positions toward the neck, whereas a conversion neck brings the nut closer to the body.
     

  12. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    Fretting or even applying a capo doesn't alter the "scale length", it alters the string's pitch/tuning within the set scale and not changing the scale length is what I'm pointing out.
     

  13. guitarbuilder

    guitarbuilder Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Mar 30, 2003
    Ontario County
    I can't think of any other way to compare scale to string wavelength nodes. Maybe somebody more schooled can chime in.
     

  14. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    66
    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    Maybe I'm not following correctly....if you capo (say at third fret) and then tune to regular pitch ("E" at your now open 6th string) haven't you changed the scale length? If you measure from your capo, which is effectively the nut, it's going to be shorter than originally. Please enlighten me.
     

  15. PeterUK

    PeterUK Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 4, 2003
    Nottingham, UK
    Yes, you are. Warmoth have done the thinking for you.

    Try one, it it doesn’t work, sue Warmoth and sell it eBay (for the same as what you paid for it) and buy a normal neck.

    :) Peter
     
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  16. cabra velha

    cabra velha Tele-Afflicted Platinum Supporter

    Jan 21, 2016
    estados unidos
    Go tell this to the people over in the Jazz Guitar forum, they have been arguing it for a decade.

    I'm by no means an expert but I've built at least 6 partscasters with warmoth conversion necks, you definitely need to adjust intonation at the bridge and that effectively (I believe) adjusts for any bridge position issue. I've never detected a tonal difference, they still sound like telecasters (when using tele style pickups). I'm arriving at the theory that you need to really pay some attention to nut-tuner post geometry when you go the conversion-neck route, lower string tension overall, string trees are your friend.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018

  17. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    How are you going to effectively tune with a capo already on the fretboard? Length from nut to bridge is your scale length no matter what tuning you use. Say you tuned to the regular E based tuning and then put a capo at the 12th fret, Did you change the scale length? No. Scale length remains the same, you just changed the tuning an octave. Fretting or using a capo will only change the tuning interval and not the scale in this scenario.

    If you could put a capo on using it as a nut and then tune to another key, only the open notes would be correct because all the frets would be in the wrong place.

    Purpose of a capo is to change key within the scale, frets are to play notes and chords within the scale.
     

  18. tdoty

    tdoty Tele-Meister

    170
    Oct 17, 2011
    Albuquerque, NM

  19. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2011
    Tucson
    Yeah, what? I may be hung up trying to understand the difference between "putting a capo on" and "putting a capo on using it as a nut". Zepfan, what is the difference you're pointing out in your post?

    And back to the original idea. A tele conversion neck like the one for which I posted the pdf above is a real 24 3/4" scale and there should be no need for any modifications to the bridge for it to intonate right if it is mounted on a standard Tele body. Heck, I recently built a guitar with two interchangeable necks, one a 24 3/4" scale, and the other a standard fender baritone scale. After the owner had played the guitar neck a few months we swapped to the Baritone neck and the intonation was spot on - I didn't even have to turn a single screw!
     
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  20. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    66
    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    Not sure we're even on the same page. Are you asserting that a guitar can't go out of tune, and be re-tuned, with a capo on? I've played with capos in the past and could still turn the tuners and adjust pitch. Back during the "folk-music scare" of the early sixties, guitarists often used capos at the first fret to help lower string action....there weren't as many people back then who could cut the nut down. The guitarists would then tune to "regular pitch", with much better comfort. That "changed" scale length, but the guitars still played in tune. (or as close as an acoustic with an uncompensated saddle could play) As far as my conversion neck is concerned, when it was mounted on my Tele body, it did require very minor saddle adjustment, but certainly not bridge relocation.
    Just trying to clear these increasingly muddied waters.....;)
     

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