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NOAD Fender 1980s Superchamp

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Dacious, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. Bendyha

    Bendyha Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Mar 26, 2014
    Northern Germany
    Congratulations.....F400640 = Spring 1884.

    Interesting with that speaker...if it is the original ? Big magnet, probably a 1 1/2" voice coil, but that dustcap would cover a 2" coil, can you see the size of the cone throat? If it sounds good, your in luck, no point in changing it.

    Lindy reverb cables are definitly new, but hey...no worries, a good price.

    Any chance of some gutshots to see if all is in order there?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018

  2. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    [​IMG]

    The above picture shows the OEM Pyle 10" for the Super Champ with what appears to be the same part number as on your Eminence..being that they are the same part for Fender, right? I suppose seeing that Eminence on an IPad Air instead of a bigger screen made me think I was seeing something I wasn't. I can't find that OEM speaker from my first SC. Small loss for me...but it is probably underneath or behind another speaker somewhere.
    Being subjective in nature, if a person likes a certain speaker, that is what they hear and like.
     

  3. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    I'll live with it for the moment, yup it's got a ton of bass and top end, I've never had a Fender and especially not with 6V6s where I can go '9' on volumes and go '8' on bass with only a hint of fart , in fact it reminds me of a white frame Altec 41* 12 or 15..... I can get icepick or brick to the head if I go super high on treble or bass but it's very tameable. Maybe Emi modelled a classic CTS late in Fullerton days? Seems curious it's got a Fender-CTS part number, but then so does the Pyle. I might ask Eminence via their support site.

    I'm thinking this speaker isn't original to the amp due to it having the extra mounting holes which have been used. Intriguing.

    The other thing is, the master volume on this thing is really effective, it drops level without losing all the balls. Only other amp I've tried that seems to work this well on is Mesas.

    Yup, I'll pull the chassis for a looksee when I get a minute.

    Edit - been comparing with pics online and I think it's the stock Emi speaker. Maybe it's loosened up a bit or it's got different cone/coil?

    So I'll look for another. It's efficient, but very wideband. I'll keep my eyes peeled for something alnico or an EV type. Maybe I might find a CTS alnico. Maybe even a vintage Jensen P10Q, or blue flame Emi 10. Had one of those in a 5E3 mini I built.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018

  4. ScottJPatrick

    ScottJPatrick Tele-Afflicted

    May 12, 2011
    Stirling, Scotland.
    This was the original Pyle speaker from my '82 Super Champ. same 064121 number.

    IMG_8503.JPG IMG_8504.JPG
     

  5. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Great call on the 12AU7, Wally. Tucked the 5751s away - I know they came in something Fender.

    Got an ITT longplate Lorenz 12AX7 in slot 1, really smooth, low noise tube and a Phillips Miniwatt 12AU7A in slot two. It's so sparkly and Spanky in BF mid-off mode. If I pull the mid-boost it"s Chicago Bluesville, that big cranked edge-of-,breakup tone. And the verb is just perfect. Unbelievable for such a shortspring pan.

    Put my Tele in serial/in-phase, straight into Keef from Gimme Shelter!

    And it just sings - hit a note and waggle your finger, wah-wah-wah-wah!

    And the gain reminds me of a Good Boogie Mk II, lots of harmonics, overtones, grunt.

    With the mid-boost it's almost 2.5 channels.

    Really loving this thing. Geoff Wells who's Darryl Braithwaite'' guitarist for two decades uses one, it's his only amp.

    FB_IMG_1523323727366.jpg

    This might be able to replace both my Excelsior in my old farts band, and Marshall in my young farts band!

    I'll try and do a recording.
     

  6. Bendyha

    Bendyha Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Mar 26, 2014
    Northern Germany
    Darryl Braithwaite.....Old Sid......HOWZAT.....now there's flashback to my teens.....But....I was more into delta blues and punk at the time.
     

  7. Bendyha

    Bendyha Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Mar 26, 2014
    Northern Germany
    Here the original speaker from my SC...no number stamp...small magnet...1" voice coil. Next to it a Emi 10" 064 121 from 1980 (75W lead cab).... larger magnet...1 1/2" voice coil
    upload_2018-4-10_15-22-58.png
    upload_2018-4-10_15-23-34.png

    The other option was the Ribbed back EV force 10..bigger magnet still.....but I opted for the EVM 10"..which doesn't fit in the original cab...but it was worth building a new one!
    upload_2018-4-10_15-27-32.png
     

  8. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    IMG_20180416_220610.jpg

    Here's the initial gutshot - obviously someone has been in replacing poly caps with 'Orange drops', the wiring looks to have been neatened compared to pics I've seen. No filter or bypass or bias caps have been replaced though. The bias cap is hard up against the 100uf bypass.

    I will check the values of the caps and especially the contentious ones between yours Bendy's and Wally's and the schemo.

    It certainly sounds very full, no particular icepick or mud turned down or cranked, so I'm thinking some of the .047s may already be swapped out for .022s.

    Perhaps that's why the speaker is coping - plus it's like the larger voicecoil/magnet unit on the left, and it's got a big mosquito net over the voicecoil. So whether it's an original fit, or someone swapped it in - maybe this is the later revision of this speaker. It reminds me of the ceramic CTS speakers in my Vibrolux.

    At practice with two bands, the old farts band it had no issues keeping up with a Hughes & Kettner 60 watt 6L6 212 amp. At practice with the young'uns the other guitarist with a HRDx was complaining I was 'in his ear'.

    Placing a 12AU7 in the V2 position, improved the reverb out of sight, and made the drive better in terms of fizz and level, but I still want to see if I can get a slightly brighter voice.

    It's definitely got potential.
     

  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX

  10. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    I think you may be right. The print on some of them is quite worn, 716p 600v markings, and it's got .047s still. It seems neat, but the Mallory can caps are original and dated 84. I will measure up all the voltages, too. I'm using a 120v stepdown, which measures dead on 120 volts unloaded and is regulated.

    If it sounds good now.......
     
    Wally likes this.

  11. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Aha! The thick plottens!


    Check out the front of this speaker:

    IMG_20180417_123418.jpg
    That is a 1.5" voicecoil at least, shining a light through the strainer. The magnet on the back is 4.5". That plus eight screw mounts suggests a later version of this speaker.


    This might explain why it doesn't seem to be a dud. It's got plenty of poke. It doesn't seem to have a lot of character but it's very even in response - you can get treble or bass, or pull out the mid boost for fat tone.

    So it's either original, a later replacement of the same year or its a recone using mix and match bits. The alternate screwholes have had screws through.

    Oh, and Bendyha, your and Wally's .0027 cap between the reverb transformer and Vactrol circuit is a .001 on mine, which I think is as per schematic.

    I'm ordering electrros now, plus a 240 volt transformer. Some idjit has Billy Bobbed a 2 pin plug onto the end of the 3-wire and taped it, so that needs fixin' too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018

  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Dacious, looking at the lower left of the picture above, it seems that there are signs of distress in that cone. Unless my eyes are deceiving me, there is the beginning of a tear across the cone toward the inside boundary of the doping. Just below that, there seems to be some deterioration in the surround. Pity if that is so. In such cases I use speaker repair glue to minimize any further deterioration.
    As noted, I don’t believe that is an OEM speaker...or if it is OEM, it is a different Eminence than the originals I have seen in numerous Super Champs throughout the years.
     

  13. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    It sounds OK at present - debating what if anything to replace it with. I am leaning to a Legend 1058 just for slightly higher efficiency. As it is, this speaker has no hint of the 'boxiness' people complain about. I used it in rehearsal last night and it just cuts through clean or dirty. I"m not getting the horrible splatty blocking distortion I did with the Excelsior using drive.

    I think a lot of people had denigrated this amp in the past A because it wasn't an original BF style Fender with few controls, and B because they had no use for the pull-boost.

    Using it in the 'young people's band it's not far off where it needs to be.

    The 12AU7 really lightened up the drive, I just need to get it slightly smoother and mod for the footpedal. I noticed Bendyha's mod for the pedal may smooth out the lead channel. It might get me there. The lead sound is just a bit 'grainy' - it's really close to a Mk II Boogie.

    I'm thinking going .022 on the coupling caps might help. But I'm really loving the clean tones.....

    Wondering if I can work out a way to use the reverb jack to footswitch in the mid control. That appears to be just a straight switch.

    This could come close to the perfect Swiss army knife amp for me. And it's so compact and lightweight! Last night I walked in to rehearsal with guitar, amp one case and effects in its carry case.

    It lives with a VERY loud drummer, no- problem.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018 at 9:51 PM
    Wally likes this.

  14. ScottJPatrick

    ScottJPatrick Tele-Afflicted

    May 12, 2011
    Stirling, Scotland.
    I had the Eminence 1058 in mine before I found an EVI 10, did a pretty good job but Wally will tell you that the 1028 is even better! The cone on the 1058 looks to be about the same size as the one on your current speaker. Mine was light until i put in the EV, not any more.....
     

  15. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    When played in the clean mode with the midboost not engaged and the Master Volume at 10, one is playing through a BF Princeton Reverb that does not have the tremolo circuit. At its heart, the SC is a BF AB763 reverb amp. IN addition, the amp has options that offer much greater versatility than did that AB763 circuit.
     

  16. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Totally agree. It's really like - deliberate or not - they created the first modeller, straight up it's a great simple clean BF sound with lovely verb.

    Pull the mid boost and it gains a whole new dimension. Dime it and ride the guitar volume knob and it's very Big Tweed, with singing notes.

    I'm going to try revoicing the lead channel with a 560pf silver mica resistor. Along with the footswitch mod, this may just cure the only significant issue.

    Really, I'm pretty happy with the tones I'm getting 70-80% of the time. Although the lead tone is just a bit ragged on chords it's not at all bad.

    Clean is just about spot on for my needs. A recap and finetuning of the bias and some bulletproofing/preventive things like grid stoppers is really all I need.

    I could chuck a lot of mods at it and change it without necessarily improving it.
     

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