Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups darrenriley.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

New 5E3 build from Mable Audio kit

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by tombob, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. arcticbreaze

    arcticbreaze Tele-Meister

    115
    Aug 2, 2014
    Oamaru NZ
    the only mod i made when i first put in the 6l6's was to change the bios resistor. worked great as a guitar amp.( but I don't play guitar lol, hence all the other mods)
     

  2. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    If you haven't used the 6p3s-E before I think you'll be really happy with them. I've run them in my Twin Reverb and even a couple or higher gain amps and they're great, solid built tubes and they're fine running 500 volts and 25w. When they first started showing up a lot I was getting them for $20-$25 a quad. They still aren't too expensive but I miss the days of five bucks a tube for them.
    What did you end up with for a bias resistor? I would think what works with a gz34/6L6 setup should be close with a NOS 5y3 and 6V6 setup. It would be handy to be close enough to go between 6L6s and 6V6s with a rectifier change.
     

  3. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    Does anyone have any info on Chinese 5Z3P rectifier tubes? I seen where they were supposed to be sub for 5U4 rectifiers like the 5E5 pro used but it didn't say a lot and it wasn't a place I put a lot of trust in. I plan on doing a little research myself but thought maybe someone on here might know already. There's definitely some knowledgeable and helpful folks on here.
     

  4. arcticbreaze

    arcticbreaze Tele-Meister

    115
    Aug 2, 2014
    Oamaru NZ
    I havent tried the 5z3p's yet, but the 5z2p (5y3 equivalent ) seems to be dmn good tube and cheep too.
    used one to replace a JJ gz34 that was microphonic, dropped the b+ a bit of course but owner liked the change in tone this caused so a win all round.
     

  5. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    I decided to go back to the screens on the output tubes and add screen resistors to help keep things quiet. I know most people who add them use 2w 470r resistors but I didn't have any so I used 5w 560r which should be good. I've went out of the way with grounding and anything I can think of to make it quiet, I want to be able to run it hard enough for club gigs without too much hum/noise. I cringe every time I go to play a club and see half a dozen neon signs on the back wall of the stage anyway.
     
    robrob likes this.

  6. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    I have everything where it goes and wired up. I'm going to wait until my eyes are fresh and check all connections, especially on the preamp tubes where wires are close to be sure all my solder joints look good and nothing is touching anything it shouldn't and just give everything a good checking against the wiring layout before I power it up.
    I decided to go ahead and order a 1M push/pull the next time I order parts for a project to do the Mid Control. I put the standby in to fill the hole until I get the parts to do it properly. It'll be easy to get rid of the standby when I'm ready and I left enough wire to move the power switch to the end.
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
     

  7. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    I haven't checked voltages yet but I plugged into a speaker cab (1x12 open back w/ Weber Michigan) and played through it a while. It sounds great! I'm going to have to go back and swap the OT primaries, my switched NFB loop is a PFB loop now (squealllllll!!!) but that's no big deal. One of the diodes included in the kit was working so I had to remove my backup diodes from the rectifier but I'll replace them sooner or later. I'm happy with how it sounds though. I'm going to start checking the voltages tomorrow.

    Just a add-on here, after playing a while I noticed it's biased too hot. I was getting little glow on the plates of my 6V6s. I have a NOS 5y3 which will bring the voltage down quite a lot from the 5ar4 they sent with it so I'll check it with it tomorrow. I did stick a pair of 5881s I had handy in it and it seems about right with the 5ar4 and them. It's really putting out a lot of power with the 5881s and 25 watt OT that's in it. The PT didn't seem to get particularly hot either. I'd be very happy if I could find a sweet spot where both 5y3/6v6 and gz34-5ar4/5881 setups would be within bias range. I don't think that would be too tough to pull off. It's a loud 5e3 with those 5881 tubes, I would bet it's putting out somewhere in the 22-24 watt range with them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017

  8. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    I'm happy with how things turned out. With the 5ar4 and 5881s I'm getting 17 watts disipation on each tube and with the 5y3 and 6v6s it's 13 watts which is fine with EH 6v6 tubes since they're 14w tubes. They both sound very good and it's a very clean Deluxe (tweed clean, aka slightly hairy) with a ton of headroom for what it is. The 25 watt OT gives it a ton of volume with the 5881s too, I think it's going to be a perfect club amp.
    I think the Tung-Sol 5y3 I have was made between 50' and 53' so I'm thinking I might get another NOS 5y3 for a backup. I just wish all NOS tubes were the same price as 5y3 tubes are! They must have make millions and millions of 5y3s in the USA, I guess tons of TVs, radios, Intercom systems, hi-fi amps, record players, etc., etc., used them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017

  9. Engraver-60

    Engraver-60 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    65
    Jan 6, 2008
    Franklin, TN
    Please post a video or soundclip.
     

  10. Amazed

    Amazed Tele-Meister

     

  11. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    I need to try to record a clip to put on here. I'm happy with what I've ended up with. It's on the hot side of biasing with the 5y3/6V6 setup. It's ok with 14w EHX or JJ 6V6s but I wouldn't want to run Tung-Sols or another 12w tube this hot. If I was going to (or decide to in the future) run 6V6s all or even most of the time I think I'd bump the 240r cathode resistor to a 270r or 300r. With a 5AR4 and 5881s it's showing 17.5 watts which is perfect, I'm really liking it with the 5881s too so I think I'm going to run like that a while. The PT isn't getting overly hot and Articbreeze has been running the same kit with 6L6s without problems (which helps give me confidence in the amp). The 5881s combined with the 25 watt OT seems to give it tons of headroom and volume. I'm still doing some thinking and debating on cab/speaker setups but I think it's going to be a great club Deluxe with the 5AR4/5881 setup. I think in the long run I'm going to end up with a 2x10 combo and have a 1x15 ext cab when I want more sound. I'm a fan of the 10/15 speaker mix.
     
    robrob likes this.

  12. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    Just to see if anyone has tried one... I've decided on the WGS g10c/s for this build but I'm wondering about the Eminence rf10c (Red Fang CERAMIC) speaker. I'm actually thinking about it for a Pignose g40v (with 5f6a inspired mods), I use it for rehearsal sometimes and it's a great little backseat amp to take to jams and as a backup amp to have at gigs. I just wondered how close the rf10c is to the Weber Blue Pup ceramic. I know the Red Fang Alnico is a very well liked speaker, if the Alnico is good the ceramic should be too, in some amps I even prefer ceramics.
    If the rf10c sounds like I think it might though it wouldn't be a bad setup to run a pair with a 5e3 or a quad in a Bassman. Maybe 2 of the ceramic and 2 of the Alnicos for a Bassman as a alternative to the vintage Jensen style speaker. I'm rambling now though...
    If anyone has tried the Eminence rf10c tell me what you thought of it. Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017

  13. Fiat_cc

    Fiat_cc Tele-Meister

    Age:
    34
    443
    Oct 8, 2016
    Melbourne, Australia
    I’ve not tried a lot of different speakers but have an RF10C in my Micro Bassman and love it. It’s smooth, efficient, nice top end without getting ice pick-y.
    I’d recommend it.
     

  14. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    Thanks Fiat_cc, the speaker that comes in the Pignose g40v is fairly bright sounding. It's not too bad since I modded the amp and removed some of the harshness but still it could definitely stand a speaker upgrade. Those Pignose tube amps are actually great sounding amps with a few mods, a lot like a jtm-45 with a master volume and a extra gain stage. I'm running 12ay7 preamp tubes though that brings it down to normal "BluesBreaker" gain.
     
    Fiat_cc likes this.

  15. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    I know a few of you have used the Framus style mid control in amps before. Have any of you noticed any big differences between capacitor types in the circuit? I have plenty of ceramic discs if they sound fine but I can probably scrounge together a couple of silver micas out of my parts if it's worth it. I probably have a couple of ODs #102 .001uf caps if I go through enough junk bins.
    I have ceramics running out the wazoo but I don't mind doing something else if it has a real effect on the performance of the mid control.
     

  16. FenderLover

    FenderLover Friend of Leo's

    Jun 11, 2009
    Minnesota
    I've only used Mallory's in the Framus circuit, just because that's what I use for EQ circuits. Ceramic can be a crap shoot because the tolerances are not real tight. It might be worth a try. Frankly, I'd be kinda curious of the results.
     

  17. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    I came up with something a little odd, I only had one Sprauge orange drop in .001 uf so I matched up a ceramic disc with it. I put the OD on the input side and the ceramic on the other. The way it looks to me the cap on the input lug is the only one that should really effect the tone, the other one just a drain to ground through the resistor as the knob is turned down and less actual mids are attenuated. It's not a problem to replace the ceramic sometime after I replenish my resistor stockpile anyway if it doesn't seem to work as well. I'm waiting for switches to get here in a couple of days, the 3-way on my NFB loop was used before and isn't as reliable as I want so when I get them I'm going to do everything at one time (swap NFB switch, install mid control, put a new 2-way switch in to bypass mid control when I'm not using it and a couple of other small tweaks) and I'll post my results.
     

  18. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    I added on/on switch between the on/off/on NFB switch and the output jack. Since I'm using 5881s in it the 56k feedback resistor isn't quite enough at 4-ohms. I added the switch so I can use either a 56k or 39k nfb resistor. That will give me standard 5f6a NFB level with either 5Y3/6V6 or 5AR5/5881 tubes (56k for 6V6s at 8-ohms or 39k for 5881s at 4-ohms). I really like the amp with the 5881s but I like the fact that I can run it with 6V6s when I want to. To have a good bias on the 5881 setup it does make it pretty hot with 6V6s but it's good as long as I use either EHX or JJs that can handle a bit more current.
     

  19. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX
    This is the NFB switch I used, the on/on switch I added is there where you see the 56k resistor, actually between the resistor and the on/off/on switch.

    By the way, Rob has put some really great layouts and info out there. I know he's had to have put a lot of time and effort into it, I definitely appreciate his generosity in sharing.

    image.jpeg
     
    robrob likes this.

  20. tombob

    tombob Tele-Meister

    Age:
    45
    455
    Jun 25, 2010
    Sonora, TX

    Happy
    New Year everyone!
     

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.