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My CNC build.

Discussion in 'The DIY Tool Shed' started by nickhofen, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. adirondak5

    adirondak5 Wood Hoarder Extraordinaire Ad Free + Supporter

    Oct 24, 2009
    Long Island NY
    I've seen machined rails and shimmed rails for the linear guides Nick , but I've never seen the poured epoxy method . Very interesting , is there a special type of epoxy that needs to be used ? I would assume its a thin pour just enough to level up the steel box beams . Looks like that would be a fast and affordable way to get everything perfectly flat .

    Don't let Cookie and Lazarus get stuck in the epoxy :D
     

  2. nickhofen

    nickhofen Friend of Leo's

    Hi Herb.
    The epoxy that the cnc expert at mycncuk use for this work ,is a low viscosity-long time curing epoxy.

    They say that the best for this work is the West System Epoxy 105/209.

    When you mix it is very thin ,this helps the self leveling and has curing time about one week ,but this depends of environment temperature and humidity.

    If I finally use the epoxy level technique I have to be sure that dog and cut won't be able to get in the workshop since those two guys for sure won't get intgere to help me with the process,lol.
     

  3. Deneb

    Deneb Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Feb 16, 2011
    Ukraine, Dnipro
    Nice work, Nick. This base frame looks great.:cool:
    What pipe/metal thickness was used by you?
     
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  4. nickhofen

    nickhofen Friend of Leo's

    Thanks Deneb.
    The frame is made with square tubes 80x80 mm and 4mm thick ,for bracing I am going to use 50x50mm tubes.
    Ideal will be the 80x80 mm tubes to be 5mm thick for tapering and damping resonance,but at the local market I couldn't find tubes with 5mm thickness.
    When I finish the base construction I am going to fill the four vertical tubes-legs with sand to avoid future resonand troubles.
    A general rule of thumb is that the wider the steel tubes the thicker must be...
     

  5. adirondak5

    adirondak5 Wood Hoarder Extraordinaire Ad Free + Supporter

    Oct 24, 2009
    Long Island NY
    Thanks for the info Nick . I went over to mycncuk and read through the thread where the epoxy is being used . Very interesting process .
     

  6. nickhofen

    nickhofen Friend of Leo's

    I am glad you have the time to search it and you find it useful Herb.
     

  7. RogerC

    RogerC Poster Extraordinaire Vendor Member

    Mar 30, 2011
    Oklamerica

  8. jvin248

    jvin248 Friend of Leo's

    Apr 18, 2014
    Near Detroit, MI
    .

    Most of the problem I see with small CNCs is the rotation of the cutter about the z-axis rails due to the required gaps to slide/roll/move and the short distance between the sets of guide rails. The router is cantilevered over the workpiece from the x-axis due to the z-axis parts package.

    Example picture to help clarify (?) .. the head runs on z-axis rails up/down that have clearance to move and the head plus z-axis assembly runs on x-axis rail with clearance to move. This machine has about 4 inch separation of rails and rollers in z movement and 4 inch separation in x while router holder is 4 inches off the center of the x-beam giving the ability of the cutter and workpiece to conspire and torque the system putting the cuts off location. Usually not a problem when cutting wood, but a big problem trying to mill out aluminum.

    [​IMG]

    If those axis rollers or wheels or slides were 8 inches apart that reduces the potential rotation of the system assemblies in half but costs more when making a wider and taller machine to still have a given work zone.

    I'll be curious to see how your head system mounts and moves.

    .
     
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  9. nickhofen

    nickhofen Friend of Leo's

    RogerC likes this.

  10. nickhofen

    nickhofen Friend of Leo's

    Very good point, what ever you said are all so true.
    From what I see at the cnc forums and from what I have read untill now, a careful design with emphasis to detail can give a great machine and save from disaster.

    Support plates,no2 in the photo you post, must be wide enough to over stand the torque that the whole gantry suspend....I do not know if this is the right word, maybe accepts is the right one.
    A general rule is that the plates must be so wide that the cutter of the router or the spindle will not protrude from them.
    Also the Z axis must be as close as it is possible to the X axis so there is not so much torque applied at the x when the the cutter do the job.
     

  11. nickhofen

    nickhofen Friend of Leo's

    sergiomajluf likes this.

  12. nickhofen

    nickhofen Friend of Leo's

    At the end...God is in the detail....
     

  13. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    This discussion all seems to point to the wisdom of buying a well-reviewed kit, with a good design that's been on the market for long enough to have the bugs worked out.

    Or build your own from very specific plans that have had a bunch of copies built, so the design is known good, or has been improved and improved models built and tested.

    Seems by now all this should have been worked out, and specifications designed to deal with rail stiffness, torque reaction of the router's movement, z-axis cantilever "sag", and the 1001 other factors a novice might not even think about.
     

  14. adirondak5

    adirondak5 Wood Hoarder Extraordinaire Ad Free + Supporter

    Oct 24, 2009
    Long Island NY
    It has been all worked out , there are mostly very similar designs available on linear rail ball screw machines/ builds . But like Nick said " god is in the detail "
    It all comes down to a balancing act Rick . As a manufacturer , you need to make/design a machine that operates within certain standards and yet keep costs at a reasonable level . As a builder of your own machine you basically have the same choices , I want a machine that will run a .50" bit in hardwood at 250 ipm and 3/8 depth of cut , its gonna cost more than a build at less than those specs . Both machines could cut within .003" repeat ability running at their optimal speeds and feeds , which is better for you ? The faster machine (cut a t-body in 20 minutes) that cost you $5000 to build/buy or the slower machine (cut a t-body in 120 minutes) that cost you $3000 to build/buy ?
     

  15. GunsOfBrixton

    GunsOfBrixton Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 9, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    Rick, I think you do have a good point when it comes to the "build it yourself" category. There are designs available but it takes an awful lot of work to track them down and read through all the pluses and minuses. CNC zone is great but it is easy to get lost. There really should be 1 thread somewhere where you could choose from a few designs where it lists the advantages and disadvantages.of each. Has parts lists, options, running specs (rapid speeds, cutting speeds)
     

  16. nickhofen

    nickhofen Friend of Leo's

    All what you guys said is so true,the difficult part of all is to read a cnc thread written from a nubby cnc guy that his English are awful,lol!

    The steps I follow and lead me to design my own cnc....

    When I discover that my first cnc was not the best for what I wanted to do ,I start looking to buy a bigger one and I came face to face with some problems,that I had to compromise or reject,what was those?

    First I try to find a machine to buy with the money I already had, choices was very limited and half of them was bellow my expectations!
    The other half had very high import taxes.

    So I start looking to buy plans from machines that was already build from other guys and see that was running with out problems.
    I started to search at different forums and found one that I thought was the perfect machine...
    Many guys had make a build according those plans and many Youtube videos made me believe that this was the right machine.
    I purchase the plans, 75$ if I remember right!
    Before I start a build, I communicate with a guy that has a Youtube channel and use this machine all the time, the reason I choose this guy, was because his machine had many modifications.

    I ask the obvious, if the first design was good, why he made so many "upgrades" and how much finally the machine cost!

    The answer save me from a lot of money.
    The machine had a lot of wick points, a fancy but not robust structure that cost him about 4.000$ to build and finally another 2.500 to make it work properly.:cry:
     
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  17. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    Holy crap, Nick. $6,500 should buy you the CNC and a good looking girl to give you shoulder rubs ;) while you watch it work! Think of the shop tools that would buy you!
     
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  18. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Aug 3, 2010
    Loganville, Ga.
    Just out of curiosity, say you're a small-scale guitar builder, and have some set body shapes you want to produce. Assume you want to CNC the bodies and maybe the necks, and devote that time to other guitar building tasks.

    I'm thinking that what Herb quoted above, would be too slow, even the "fast" one at 20 minutes to cut out a T-body.

    Something short of the multi-spindle things Fender and Gibson, et. al. use to carve their bodies, but what kind of $$ would you be talking for a machine that can do a body, completely unsupervised, and completely trustworthy to walk away from and do something else, say in 5 minutes or less? Is that a reasonable specification? Assume the blanks will come in pre-sized for slapping down on the operating table. I know at some point tooling will come into the picture, but seeing as how there is machine tooling that will do steel, surely there are tool bits that can carve guitar body wood with some accuracy, and expectation of reasonable longevity.
     

  19. Davecam48

    Davecam48 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    69
    Dec 31, 2009
    Queensland Australia
    Being a completely non computer coding and operating idiot, I fail to see the point of a machine which costs in the $1,000's of dollars to cut out a tele body in 20 mins or more. I can see the usefulness of an automated system to manufacture complex engineering designs which may be extremely difficult to do accurately by hand but a solid body outline is basically a 2D cut. Here is where you get the overhead pin router mantra again! :eek: For a home made pin router system, the main outlay is for a goodly powered trimmer router say 100 to 200bucks? the rest consists of a bit of threaded rod some plywood and a few hours of your time. An MDF template for a Tele takes about 20 or so mins. to make and costs in the order of 5 bucks. Said template allows you to cut out a body in around 15mins in an easy and safe way with little risk of accident unless you try to cut it out full depth in one go. The pickup cavities etc. are still better managed with a hand held router but the shape and positioning can all be part of the $5.00 template and can be cut to the exact depth in the same operation as cutting the body, and then hand routed inside the cut line to clear it to the depth required.

    Don't get me wrong I really admire the people who can get their heads around all this "stuff" and make it work, but I did my time as an "electronics" tech in the days before transistors thick-films and IC's and understand how all the "new" stuff works, but computer language is even more difficult than my shyteful Chinese.

    I was going to say it's all Greek to me but I thought Nick might get overexcited! :lol:

    Have a great Christmas to all here and stay safe.

    DC
     
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  20. Davecam48

    Davecam48 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    69
    Dec 31, 2009
    Queensland Australia
    As an addition to the above post I remember when we saw our first transistor. It was a small glass bottle about the size of the end joint of your little finger in a Japanese "transistorized" radio,and painted with a thick black paint probably pitch. We of course scraped off the paint on one to see if there was a filament inside the thing. Of course there wasn't and the damn thing wouldn't work after that because the sunlight got into the 'P" junction and caused some kind of optical "runaway" A quick coat of black paint and back to normal. It really was like seeing a "miracle" at the time.

    DC
     

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