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My child not allowed on field trip today...I let the administration have it!!!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Junkyard Dog, May 14, 2018.

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  1. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 2, 2010
    I was separating the use of local language conventions from holding certain language conventions as a benchmark of a "good child".

    One might use "yes maam" in the execution of a home invasion robbery, yet imbue the esteemed phrase with no real or implied respect!
    Chick-N-Picker likes this.

  2. Solrac Kai

    Solrac Kai Tele-Meister

    Dec 14, 2011
    My inference came from reading the entire thread and my experience with entitled parent volunteers, not your post. I got the joke.
    My kid goes to a school that has an extremely successful wrestling program, one the top 10 in the state. It costs 80,000 a year to fund that program and it is supported by a bingo night staffed by parents. There are very few of the parents that have kids in the program that help out, in fact many of the volunteers that do work, their kids have graduated but they still come and help. And then there are the parents who only come to help because they think it will help their kids chances to be on the Varsity squad. They complain, they gossip about the other kids, and spend most of the night trying to convince the head coach that their kid needs to be on Varsity. And then when that doesn’t work because their kid isn’t really good enough, they leave and trash the other kids and parents. but yeah no worries, ease shall be taken.
    bender66 and noah330 like this.

  3. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Jun 21, 2011
    You have me at a distinct disadvantage, because I simply can't state my objections here on the forum. I will say that my remaining two children did very well in life in spite of their higher learning.:D

  4. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Jun 21, 2011
    I say yes sir and no ma'am to most of the people I deal with, even relatives. I have been known to address an errant golf ball, or misbehaving golf club in somewhat stronger terms.
    Doctorx33 and 1955 like this.

  5. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Mar 2, 2010
    OK so, imwjl, you note that institutions are forced to deal with shall we say normal and abnormal kids in the same way.
    That is both true and not true, but that isn't really my point in this post.
    I'm not certain of what TD was saying, but IME I was actively prevented from excelling, when it was obvious that I was an exceptional kid, yet a "poor student" in a system that rewards conformity and punishes the unique.

    Of course this was the 1960s and '70s, but I'm wondering if today you are among those who still consider kids who are "highly dysfunctional or in terrible circumstances" to be among the kids who will not "do fine".
    That may be effectively true until we find better ways of dealing with and teaching the non conforming human beings that baffle us.

    I'm not really looking to find fault with anyone, but am looking toward the possibility that for example kids with ADHD, which is considered a "learning disability"; instead be viewed as kids with "alternate learning abilities".
    While some school systems have special programs for "gifted students", I'm guessing that "gifted" is at least partially determined by the kids ability to thrive in the same system as everyone else.

    I think it's cool that @kelnet teaches at a school for kids who for whatever reasons don't fit well in the regular school, and I went to an early attempt at an "alternative school" after 8th grade.

    As a kid with 155-160 IQ who got 100% on math tests, I had my grades reduced because the teachers couldn't understand my work.
    Never was I encouraged to go to college in my school years, and nobody really even tried to guide me toward adequately conformist learning in order to adapt to an education system that I would eventually need if I was to progress and excel.

    (I cannot specifically fault the system, but I worked in the trades, used drugs and alcohol to quiet my over active under stimulated brain, and fell into addiction while piling up work related physical injuries that would take me out of the workforce before retirement age. Had I gotten some help and encouragement to excel and go to college, I suspect my course would have been very different)

    I can only hope that soon there will be solutions to the problem of kids not all being the same, like hunks of wood in a sawmill.

    I know that many are trying their best to improve the system, and Thank You to those who do that.

  6. studio1087

    studio1087 Telefied Ad Free Member

    May 10, 2003
    Near Milwaukee
    Our youngest is 17. Permission slips are required two weeks before a school trip and the school has software that will send a robo-call 10 days prior to the event to any parents who failed to submit their slip. In short; we get a warning shot if they don't send our paperwork. I'm surprised that you didn't get a phone call or email when they couldn't locate your paperwork. Schools shouldn't have to molly coddle kids or parents but they often do and I think it speaks highly of the care and attention that the teachers provide.

    Should a kid go on a trip without paperwork? No they shouldn't go. It's silly to ask if they should go without paperwork. Can you imagine the blowback if the school simply "took" a certain kid to an art museum where the kid got to see a boob in a painting or a naked sculpture and then his fundamentalist parents then go insane? There are all kinds of people in this world. I know that teachers dance through more whack job parents than you could imagine. The teachers have to be very sensitive so that everyone else is happy.

    Teachers work their a**es off. I have remarkable respect for teachers. It's a big CYA. They can't assume that it's ok to take a kid anywhere.

  7. jondanger

    jondanger Friend of Leo's

    Jan 27, 2011
    Charm City, MD
    You may find Thomas Szasz’s work to be of interest. Specifically “The Myth of Mental Illness.”

    My son is autistic and has attention issues. He is 8 and reads on a seventh grade level. He was multiplying double digit numbers by single digit numbers in his head in kindergarten.

    He can’t sit at a desk for more than 20 minutes EVER. He will read on the stairs. He will read walking through the grocery store. He will read upside down on the couch. But he won’t read at his desk in school. At least not for more than 20 minutes.

    The school has no idea what to do with him. We get a call to pick him up at least once a week.
    telemnemonics and bendercaster like this.

  8. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 5, 2006
    Sinatra's World
    With all the truly exceptional children and adults (who were gifted, but restrained by the system as children) in this thread, how is it we haven't solved world peace, eliminated famine, and discovered a way to run a car on water yet?

    (Think about that last one for a minute. Go ahead -- Think about it!)

  9. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Jun 21, 2011
    This is not entirely what I was talking about, but I too had problems in school because I had the ability to solve fairly complex math problems without doing the long hand method to arrive at the correct answer. I was often accused of cheating even though I usually posted better scores on the tests than anyone sitting near me that I could have copied the answers from.

    I eventually lost the ability for the most part because I was "taught" that my way was inferior, and started doing it "their" way. What they actually meant was that I did not conform.

    What I am talking about is that schools are coerced into teaching by a method, that they themselves often blindly accept as being infallible, without actually putting it to a blind test. That's as far as I can go, and I hope I didn't overstep my bounds.

    This is an over simplification, but Hank Haney once approached Bubba Watson, and told him he'd like to become his golf instructor. It has been reported the Bubba then asked Hank if he could beat him at a round of golf. Hank replied, "no of course not." Bubby then asked, "why on earth would I want you for a teacher then?"

    If the brain is anything like a muscle, we all end up being flabby in our old age, in both mental and physical capacities.
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  10. jrblue

    jrblue Tele-Holic

    Nov 14, 2010
    Santa Barbara
    Perhaps your child lost the slip. Ideally, details such as permission would be settled two weeks before the trip to allow time for follow-up notifications like the one you rightly think you should have received. I'm an educator and I work in a great school, but virtually nothing unfolds normally in real time anymore; between irresponsible students, neglectful parents, inept teachers, and clueless administrators, every single undertaking is an ordeal and there are always questions and uncertainties in the works up til the last minute. Now, 90% of all those involved are terrific -- wonderful, on top of everything, appreciative -- but the other 10% never fail to reduce everything to a logistical nightmare. "I'll drive his permission slip over right now... can you hold the bus?" I'v been pulling permission forms out of a fax machine while a bus full of students stands idling in the parking lot so that one more neglectful parent's son can go on the trip... You are right to feel that you should have received notification, regardless of where the slip went. Unfortunately, too many teachers are doing moment-by-moment triage to do things the way we all want.
    telemnemonics and guitarbuilder like this.

  11. Sollipsist

    Sollipsist Tele-Afflicted

    Aug 25, 2016
    Husband of teacher here (well, technically ex-teacher because she's now in administration, but still in The District).

    There's zero debate about the single most significant factor in a student's success: parental involvement. It correlates regardless of socioeconomic factors or the amount of money going into education. Sounds to me like OP is going to have kids who do well, and in so doing reflect well on the school. Everybody wins.

    For better or worse, you can probably also count on the kids learning that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It's a valuable lesson, but problematic. Squeaky wheels are often unpleasant, especially to "the help," and are generally rewarded more conspicuously in order to generate positive PR. This is why so many businesses now have to have social media departments, and why it no longer really matters whether something was done incorrectly to begin with.

    I'm not faulting the OP - the winners in our society are pretty much exclusively squeaky wheels, so it only makes sense to teach that behavior to your kids if you want them to do well. The only thing the meek will inherit is whatever is left after the winners have wrung every last drop of use out of it. And if the winners are smart enough, they'll figure out a way to get the meek to go into debt for that as well :D

    It kinda sucks that so many people came down hard on the OP without knowing the real details. On the other hand, there's a reason why we're inclined to be skeptical of online outrage. And except for the part where the OP did everything right, this really does read like a typical internet squeaky wheel story, right down to the eddy currents of tangential outrage swirling in its wake.
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
    telemnemonics, imwjl, drlucky and 2 others like this.

  12. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Jun 21, 2011
    You better hope they DON'T figure out a way to run cars on water. Think about that for a minute. Go ahead -- Think about it!
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
    Nubs and soulgeezer like this.

  13. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

    May 2, 2003
    In college, I found more institutional dogma indoctrination that I had experienced before that point
    Sollipsist likes this.

  14. jondanger

    jondanger Friend of Leo's

    Jan 27, 2011
    Charm City, MD
    I mean it’s because nobody wants to pay for that s***, let’s be honest.
    soulgeezer likes this.

  15. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    It's interesting. My frame of reference growing up was relatively narrow or limited. Don't get me wrong, I have lovely, smart and loving parents. But no one in my family had gone to college and there were other factors that just narrowed the frame.

    I went to a college where on the surface, you might expect a different, but similarly narrow field. Not that I could have identified that at the time. But in retrospect I probably chose in part because of that. Different, but familiar frame of reference.

    But what I found instead was a wonderful openness, genuine curiosity and respect for ideas outside that frame, and in fact a concerted effort to explore and understand them, without judgment and with openness. The more perspective I get, the more grateful I become. It was just blind luck.
    Last edited: May 17, 2018

  16. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 7, 2009
    Kansas City, MO
    Ok...I thought about it. There's only so much oil and there's only so much water. Water is indispensable to human life, oil is not. Besides, at an average cost for bottled water at $1.22, imagine what it would cost if we start burning it? Maybe water isn't that great a replacement for oil?
    Toto'sDad and soulgeezer like this.

  17. haggardfan1

    haggardfan1 Friend of Leo's

    Mar 17, 2014
    down every road
    "When they find out how to burn water
    And the gasoline car is gone
    When an airplane flies without any fuel
    And the sunlight heats our homes..."

  18. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Jun 21, 2011

  19. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 21, 2007
    My mom's basement.
    I didn't say or intend to say the institutions have to deal with kids the same way or across the board. They're just challenged to have to do it all.

    We're close in age and I can't say my schools understood or knew how to deal with me but fortunately I learned a little bit of or enough of bury that which can't do you any good or what can't be changed.

    Of course education also varies in the country then and now. When I got to the Big Ten conference university with 50,000 on campus decades ago I learned my high school supposedly good and better than surrounding high schools was no way in same league as some kids from Long Island, Milwaukee and Chicago north suburbs, or the bay area. It's still that way.
    drlucky and telemnemonics like this.

  20. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 21, 2007
    My mom's basement.
    So what if there was dogma is what I thought. It sure beat driving a semi, pouring foundry ingots, and the dating options quality were leagues better. Also not all of it was dogma but sorry folks, some things are incontrovertibly true. I was glad to learn it.

    The craziest thing to me on education system haters is my blue to white collar conversion and graduation did so much in terms of teaching me to think and have an open mind.
    drlucky likes this.

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