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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

My 72 Custom with odd neck

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by Chris_R, May 11, 2015.

  1. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    Slack, sorry to ask again, but what makes you think this body is for sure a non-Fender part? The diagonal route says it's not a 72 (or it's not Fender in 72), but isn't there a possibility it'd be a pre-69 body too?
     

  2. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    The possibility is slim. It would have to be 68 or older, but has an incorrect paint shadow and the control cavity rout is squared off on the forward end (the opposite of what is typical on a Fender body).
     

  3. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    Now I see what you mean concerning the cavity, that's not the feeling I first had. Definition is bad and what I see now, that looks like a hole on a flat end, could be a dark part of the wire too through big pixels. I'm not sure to understand the incorrect paint shadow, if the guitar have had this pickguard ever since at least 1981, it's logical that the paint has printed it (except if you meant something else). I wonder if the low end of the body at neck junction hasn't a slight router's hump. I mean, during the 70's, they could have destroyed any old body… I always work from positive hypothesis, which drive me to be wrong often after a close study but allowed me to find treasures too… ;)
    Maybe this body would be worth a closer check (nothing to lose anyway).
     

  4. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    Paint shadow refers to the neck pocket (variable fading under a pickguard or hardware is often referred to as tan lines).
     

  5. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    Nothing wrong with being optimistic, but in the world of vintage guitars it's always best to work from objectivity and healthy skepticism. Things that are legit and right usually don't require much consideration or rationalizing. Here you have a guitar with a lot of problems. The first look at the neck pocket and under the pickguard throws up even more red flags. If it were a legit vintage body, it should be readily apparent. But there's nothing there to suggest it is.
     

  6. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France

    I think the neck pocket doesn't look that bad. The point with paint on this guitar is that it obviously have had several treatments. I mean, none of those routings can be factory. Routes have been enlarged, then paint have been applied, then cavities have been routed again. No doubt that paint doesn't give much informations about the body when it was new, except the egdes that look naturally worn, and maybe except the blond strip in the neck pocket side alone, that doesn't look bad to me.
     

  7. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    Um, okay. Btw, I'm not paying a bit of attention to where there is paint in the neck pocket. ;)
     

  8. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    Yes, but when the paint is on what's obviously a modification, it's cannot be original.

    Look : I've found the same 8 pencilled in the neck pocket of two 68 bodies (left is our odd custom).

    I love modified guitars!
     

    Attached Files:


  9. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    The possible 8 is interesting, but I'm not seeing the paint shadow from a 68 spray. To have removed that paint, the pencil would have also been removed.
     

  10. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    Some views of 67 neck pockets and how finish color is set in stripe on the right side.

    Chris_R, could you post some closer pictures of the cavities, specially the control cavity to check its exact shape?
     

    Attached Files:


  11. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    Note that the paint extends 1/3 into the neck pocket in your examples. Other than many 68 neck pockets, in which is extends 1/3 into the neck pocket except for a partial horizontal shadow. That middle pic is a body sprayed and completed in 68 (evidenced by both the date stamp codes and the paint shadow).
     

  12. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    In the neck pockets, paint doesn't always seem to have the shadow of a spray. Sometimes, we have the feeling that the cover was directly on the wood.

    I wouldn't think some paint has been removed (on this one, there's more added paint than the opposite!), but talking of this, I saw once my luthier removing a thick ugly paint layer in the neck cavity of an old damaged body I purchased (and never restored) and I was very surprised to see appearing under the paint a perfect pencil marking. Pencil is easy to erase only with an eraser, but it's amazingly strong otherwise!
     

    Attached Files:


  13. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    Yes, it's often 1/3 but it seems that there's variations, look at the right one on my first post of pictures, obviously there's a spray but otherwise, paint stripe is very thin.

    OMG, it's 2 am here, I'll continue this conversation tomorrow, I hope Chris_R will post pictures of the other cavities. Except the discussions we have about those cavities, I wonder which other part could carry an evidence. Maybe bridge pickup cavity…? Have a good night ;) MG
     

  14. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    I don't understand. All of the pics you posted have demonstrated the paint shadow I have been referring to. Paint in 1/3 of the pocket, and no paint in the upper 2/3s where the pipe was attached.

    Yes, pencil survives chemical stripping. But how many vintage refin Teles have you seen that had the paint chemically stripped from the neck pocket? If it's gone, it was usually sanded or routed.
     

  15. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    No, it's still about 1/3. It's the same as the one next to it, but appears thinner due to the contrast with the darker shadow area in that example. There was little variation at all. There couldn't be due to how the pipes (sticks) were attached. Reference the line in relation to the route between the neck pocket and the neck pup. Now compare that to the shadow in the OPs neck pocket.

    Could it be a 68 body? Sure. Could you ever prove it? Nope. ;)
     

  16. Major Gruber

    Major Gruber Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 24, 2012
    Colombes France
    Maybe but I'm really intrigued. Couldn't help but checked every neck pocket I have in 67 and 68 and even if I have no idea of what looks those sticks or pipes and how this was made, I seem to see what you mean when you say that paint shadow is always aligned with route edge (I confirm). Except rare non clear exceptions.
    But actually, nobody tried to convince a buyer that this was a 68 body… It sold in 81 for being a 72 custom. So I think the presence of this 8 is very intriguing and if it's a 68, we might never figure out what happened concerning the paint (except maybe if we'd see it for real as things about paint never go well through photograph). But still I'd be curious to check control cavity shape is the OP posts it. 3 am pffff
     

  17. Chris_R

    Chris_R TDPRI Member

    23
    May 11, 2015
    Toronto
    I hope this is what you mean by control cavity. The forward end is round, but I can see why it looks square in the smaller picture with that wire in the way.
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Chris_R

    Chris_R TDPRI Member

    23
    May 11, 2015
    Toronto
    Here's a less exposed picture of the neck pocket. Not sure if this is useful at all, though it makes the '8' stand out a lot more, which really looks just like those other "8"s to me.
     

    Attached Files:


  19. slack

    slack Friend of Leo's

    Sep 26, 2003
    Hollywood, CA
    Well, the better pic of the control cavity shows that the routing isn't squared off incorrectly. It looked wonky in the wide shot, but not in this pic.

    And that adjusted pic of the neck pocket definitely shows the 8, and it does seem to match those on authentic examples. More importantly, in the manipulated image I think I can discern a hint of the paint shadow that would go with that 8. Starting at the bottom of the 8 it looks like there's faint paint where there should be, even partly covering the pencil lead, and extending straight down. And starting just above the 8, going upward. The gap to the right would be correct for 68.

    Are there ~1/8" dowel plugs visible in the back of the body? They would be along the centerline, one just over 3" below the neck plate and the other about 1" from the bottom edge, by the strap button.
     

  20. Chris_R

    Chris_R TDPRI Member

    23
    May 11, 2015
    Toronto
    Yes, and I never even noticed them before. One is 3 1/8" below the plate, and the other is 7/8" above the strap button, slightly to the left toward the bottom of the guitar). I tried to take pictures, but they didn't really show up, though on one you can barely make out the one near the plate with the help of my finger and a few arrows I drew on.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 14, 2015

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