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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Modeling or tube amp for older beginner?

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by privatesalt, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    47
    Aug 17, 2012
    Seattle
    I've got over a dozen tube amps, but the majority of my playing these days is through a digital amp-and I'm not exactly a beginner. ;)

    I say let the guy buy what he wants, because ultimately it's his money and his personal enjoyment that matters.
     

  2. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    66
    Oct 22, 2006
    Garner, North Carolina
    If he has fun and plays a lot, this will be a success story. Otherwise it's a failure.

    He can afford the gear he wants, so there's no reason for him to compromise. If he was a friend, I would help him avoid bad choices like a 100 watt stack with two 4X12s, but as long as he gets good quality gear just encourage him.

    Lessons will be a big deal to help him make good progress.
     

  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    57
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    I seldom plug into anything over 15-18w and a single 12, but I still have an old 50w Marshall and 4x12 Marshall straight cab.
    The straight cab is a 1970 with all the tolex gone.
    It was a Christmas gift from my wife and I regrilled it with basketweave.
    Sits in the "living room", but we live more of a bohemian lifestyle.

    If the guy wants a Marshall half stack to learn on he should get what he wants!

    Modern Marshalls seem to get whatever sounds you need at lower volumes pretty well, clean or distorted. Really not that impractical if you have the space- and are maybe as much into the thrill of the idea as you are planning to become a great player.
     

  4. CK Dexter Haven

    CK Dexter Haven Tele-Holic

    Age:
    55
    607
    Jun 7, 2017
    GCDB

  5. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    172
    May 15, 2017
    Austin

  6. CK Dexter Haven

    CK Dexter Haven Tele-Holic

    Age:
    55
    607
    Jun 7, 2017
    GCDB
    What price happiness.. ;-)
     
    JasonKingsX likes this.

  7. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    172
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    Stop! I'm about to spend when I shouldn't. :)
     

  8. littlebadboy

    littlebadboy Tele-Holic

    Age:
    47
    601
    Jun 25, 2016
    Midwest, USA
    Boss Katana amp, and a telecaster of course!
     

  9. JeffBlue

    JeffBlue Tele-Holic

    700
    Oct 24, 2012
    southern California
    Stick with modeling WITH tubes.........Femder SCX2.
     

  10. privatesalt

    privatesalt Tele-Meister

    116
    Jan 31, 2014
    Alabama
    Thanks guys for the input and comments!..very interesting! I will go back and tally up what types (tube,modeler,hybrid,SS) are suggested when I get a chance.. (I don't want to turn it into a contest though!)...just real honest opinion. It will be interesting seeing.

    Fender SCX2 definately in running.. (as well as DRRI, Katana, Mustang 3, small tube head, etc.. basically all mentioned)... Yes it must be nice having high budget! (I wouldn't know..lol).

    Interested to hear from anyone on the subject! Thanks again...
     

  11. beninma

    beninma Tele-Meister

    Age:
    40
    306
    Mar 17, 2017
    Massachusetts
    I think someone already said it but the best thing you could do is send him in the direction of a really good instructor.

    He's already got 2 amps, seems like absolutely no need to buy another one, if his guitar is sub-par and he thinks he needs to buy something help him get a solid guitar. Help him get a good setup on the guitar since that is so important.

    I can kind of relate to the tube amp thing. I upgraded to a tube amp after only a few months too (although I was practicing on an acoustic for almost 2 years before I even got my first electric guitar), but I stuck with only one amp, and I got one that is nice and simple. I do find that I am spending less time fiddling with pedals since I got it. But the Deluxe reverb seems like big overkill for home practice.. point him in the direction of something that is more like a 1W tube amp that sounds really good at bedroom volumes and has minimal controls.

    I got an Orange Rocker 15 recently, it has *less* dials than the SS amp I replaced. The clean channel has just one knob, it is almost impossible to get into fiddling with it. It's been good for my practice discipline.

    But nothing will work like the right teacher!

    The other thing if he just needs to empty his wallet is go have him get an acoustic. You can get a lot of acoustic for the price of a Deluxe Reverb, and you can't fiddle with those much, you just play.. and they pretty much sound good no matter what once you start being able to play.
     

  12. Bill

    Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Mar 16, 2003
    London
    Given that you have a Mustang III V2, I'd actually suggest that. That way you can help set up some presets so that he can do each of the types of music he's interested in with an amp model and pedals that covers it well. Plus, he won't have the issues of upkeep and complexity that tubes can imply if he's playing a lot.

    I'd buy used--which is your only choice for that probably.

    For what it's worth, I own some vintage Fender amps, ranging from tweeds to an original Super Champ to an original blackface Deluxe Reverb. But I also have a used Mustang III V2 with a 2-button and 4-button footswitch that I spent all of $140 on. The Mustang does not clone the sound of any of my old Fenders, but it sounds perfectly good on its own.

    I personally think he'd get more out of the Mustang than from a single tube amp if he plays a variety of styles at the beginner-intermediate level, especially with you around to create a set of platform sounds for him to start with.

    And this isn't me being Mustang-centric. If you had a Katana, I'd suggest that. It's that you have a Mustang III and that would be a big help to him if he got one.

    As to guitar, I'd say what feels physically good to him (such as LP, Strat, etc), and then hone in on a specific model of that guitar that gets the sounds he wants (such as P90s, Single/Single/Humbucker).
     
    RadioFM74 likes this.

  13. MM73

    MM73 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    44
    Feb 24, 2015
    South Lyon, MI
    Maybe some nice new gear will motivate him, maybe not. I'm squarely in the beginner phase of playing, and think your friend might do well to just practice with what he has (assuming its a playable guitar - holds tune and has decent action). No amount of gear will substitute for wanting to get after it.

    In other pursuits, of which I'm a bit more accomplished, I see folks drop a lot of money on gear to get into an activity...then they just lose interest. Spending money seems to be a very temporary high.
     
    Sjnoring and luckett like this.

  14. beninma

    beninma Tele-Meister

    Age:
    40
    306
    Mar 17, 2017
    Massachusetts
    Just not really getting this.. if that's what someone wants to do then they should go right ahead but you can lay with modeling amp tone till it's perfect but if you can't play well it won't really matter.. playing right with whatever the "one tone" is that you get out of your Tube/SS amp gets you to playing well faster. (Assuming an adult who has to work, etc.. and can't just play all day.) Not that tube amps or non-modeling amps are only capable of one tone anyway. It's just anything that has lots of fiddly bits and worst of all has a computer app ends up taking up time and your hands are not on your guitar.

    IMO of course.. I am a computer guy but for me having as little computer involved has been the right thing for me with guitar. All the time goes into playing notes as opposed to messing with amp/computer. If I had all the free time in the world and could play every day till I didn't want to play more and then still had more time to go fiddle with Fender FUSE or whatever maybe it'd be different for me.

    Being able to "sound like" different tube amps/guitar combos just doesn't matter to me cause it won't make me play in time, play cleanly, play faster, etc..
     

  15. luckett

    luckett Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    I found the perfect Marshall half stack for your friend.





    [​IMG]
     

  16. Mullet Man

    Mullet Man Tele-Meister

    127
    Feb 8, 2014
    San Tan Valley, AZ
    As an older beginner (still, sheesh) I would go against the grain and say whatever guitar he has the scratch for into a Frontman 25 with an EHX Soul Food for a bit of fun (as I don't like the gain channel). That leaves lots of cash for lessons. And he wouldn't have wasted a bunch of coin on stuff he eventually didn't need, like, or use.

    Until he feels ready for "more", why make it expensive.

    I've spent loads of dough on stuff and find this is what keeps me interested, as a beginner. Good sounds, some dirt, and no tinkering.

    This is just my experience over the last couple years. His experience might be different.
     

  17. AJBaker

    AJBaker Friend of Leo's

    Oct 3, 2010
    Switzerland
    If he's not struggling financially and just wants to have some fun and enjoy his stuff, I say let him get a halfway decent tube amp like a DRRI or AC15. Good enough to gig with and enjoy for years if he gets that far, and easily sold if he chooses to give up.

    A nice simple tube amp will be easier to set to a musical and inspiring sound than a complicated amp.
     

  18. Mart the Hat

    Mart the Hat Tele-Meister

    472
    Feb 11, 2013
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    If he likes Gibson style guitars, there's nothing wrong with going for the Les Paul. But Marshall have some nice combos that would absolutely scratch the itch for a "real" Marshall without going for the half-stack, so maybe those would be worthy of consideration.
     

  19. Bill

    Bill Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Mar 16, 2003
    London
    After spending an hour reading through the manual and trying out the basics, I spent 20 minutes going through the amps. I picked a Deluxe Reverb. Set it to a cabinet I liked, fooled with the bias and sag. From there I just treated it like my original tube '66 Deluxe Reverb, even to sticking an actual pedal in front instead of using the built-in ones. I haven't done any tweaking since. 99% I treat it like my plug and play original DR.

    So I guess I've wasted about an hour and twenty minutes compared to buying a tube amp. But I can live with that.

    If he is someone who can't resist messing with buttons all the time, then yes, that is not the amp for him. I would say a simple amp or glue all the buttons down on the modeler.

    But I thing I understand what you're saying. I was talking with John 5 and asked what amps he plays through at home to practice, and he pointed to a battery powered Marshall like the one above. He said he doesn't care what he plugs into. Just walks from one room into another, plugs into whatever amp is there, and starts practicing.

    I gotta respect that. His kung fu is strong.
     
    Jim Dep and JasonKingsX like this.

  20. littlebadboy

    littlebadboy Tele-Holic

    Age:
    47
    601
    Jun 25, 2016
    Midwest, USA
    Had one of those. It sucks.
     

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