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Middle position weak sound?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by texasbloos, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. texasbloos

    texasbloos TDPRI Member

    25
    Feb 11, 2014
    7 Wantage Street
    Hi just fitted to pups to my tel. 1 a new Fender twisted neck pup and the other a second hand Lindy Fralin blues special. neck and bridge position seem fine,but when I go to the middle position theres a drop in volume and it does not sound so good at all weak and feeble. original pups worked fine in all three positions. are my new pups not compatible to each other? any ideas guys


    cheers ray
     
    hrstrat57 likes this.

  2. Ira7

    Ira7 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    61
    Jan 8, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    Sounds like you wired them wrong, out of phase.
     

  3. Finck

    Finck Tele-Holic

    Age:
    52
    921
    Oct 11, 2017
    São Paulo - Brazil
    Pickups out of phase probably. Try invert wires in one of them.
     
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  4. Ira7

    Ira7 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    61
    Jan 8, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    Yeah.

    You have to reverse the pos and neg on one of them.
     
    texasbloos likes this.

  5. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Feb 29, 2004
    Portland, OR
    Not one of them, the middle one. The bridge and neck[if covered] reversed I don't recommend. If you don't understand why not stay out of your instrument with a soldering iron would be my advice, or plan on going back in. ;)
     

  6. Finck

    Finck Tele-Holic

    Age:
    52
    921
    Oct 11, 2017
    São Paulo - Brazil
    If it's a 3 pickups guitar, agree. I though the guy was talking about a Tele, referring to "middle position" as 2 pickups engaged.

    Anyway, on a 3 pickups configuration, I believe it's more effective to invert the magnet(s) of middle pickup, if possible.
     
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  7. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    63
    Apr 11, 2016
    Las Vegas, NV
    I think the OP @texasbloos is talking about a two pickup configuration, at least that's the way I read it. If that's the case, he just needs to reverse the wiring on one of them. However, when doing this, he needs to make sure the currently -negative wire is not also connected to the ground/plate/cover of the pickup and rest of the wiring. That would mean running a separate wire for the cover or plate! There are one or two other ways to tackle this, but let's see what he has to say and how much he understands what is actually going on here!
    Just My $.02,
    Gene
     
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  8. drmmrr55

    drmmrr55 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    62
    290
    Aug 20, 2017
    Federal Way, Washington
    My impression was that he was talking about the switch's middle position, not a 3rd (middle) pickup. In which case the advice in the 1st and 2nd answers would be correct.
     
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  9. texasbloos

    texasbloos TDPRI Member

    25
    Feb 11, 2014
    7 Wantage Street
    Hi Guys sorry if I was a little unclear in my Q yes I was talking about a Telecaster and yes middle position ie. neck and bridge together.

    will try reversing 1,but thought i had wired correctly TWISTED YELLOW switch wire GREEN and BLACK to ground. FRALIN WHITE switch wire BLACK to ground?

    thanks for you info guys and advice

    cheers ray
     

  10. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    63
    Apr 11, 2016
    Las Vegas, NV
    texasbloos likes this.

  11. Jim622

    Jim622 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    55
    712
    Apr 1, 2011
    Far N.E. Philadelphia

    The man wants help - that’s how we learn this stuff. I think most of us have wired wrong and had to go back.
     

  12. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Feb 29, 2004
    Portland, OR
    Ok, if you reverse a covered neck pu, isolate the ground to the cover and run a separate ground wire to the back of the pot.

    If no cover or a 3 wire neck PU it will be easier than if the cover is soldered to the neck PU ground wire. Can explain further if you need.
     
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  13. texasbloos

    texasbloos TDPRI Member

    25
    Feb 11, 2014
    7 Wantage Street
    Hi could this be my problem taken from the gear page



    Sometimes fender pickups are reverse phase relative to many makers. if so-the green still goes to ground, but the black becomes hot and yellow is ground.
     
    Ira7 likes this.

  14. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Feb 29, 2004
    Portland, OR

    Is yours 3 wire? If yes, just reverse the two that are not the one connected to the cover.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
    texasbloos likes this.

  15. Ira7

    Ira7 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    61
    Jan 8, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    I’m gonna go out on a limb here even though I don’t know the pups he’s using.

    They’re both two wires, and just one has to be reversed.

    I also have to strongly disagree with, and fight, the sentiment that if you “don’t know what you’re doing,” to throw away your soldering iron.

    They’re freaking wires, and it doesn’t require rocket science...nor is there any danger, either physical to your own body or to your parts...to not doing it “right.”
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018

  16. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Feb 29, 2004
    Portland, OR
    Ok, so he just reverses the bridge or the neck PU wires? If he reverses the bridge he makes the bridge and strings hot, If he reverses the neck if a two wire, he makes the cover hot, [loosing the cover remedies this]' Guess what happens if he touches the neck PU cover, or the strings. The ground needs to be isolated from this mistake.

    Where you referring to my comment about putting away the soldering iron?
    Or just not read where I said be prepared to got back in? ;)

    So just keep soldering and learning this the hard way, a good way of learning?? It is a way for sure. :cool:
     
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  17. Ira7

    Ira7 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    61
    Jan 8, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    What’s so hard about “keep soldering?” And who hasn’t learned everything the hard way?

    Unless you went and checked the specs for his pups, which I was certainly too lazy to do and you as well...

    How did you help him at all?
     
    texasbloos likes this.

  18. DavidP

    DavidP Friend of Leo's

    Mar 16, 2003
    Vancouver, BC
    texasbloos... if you haven't yet, pick up a cheap DMM. Given 3 leads on the Twisted Tele neck, confirm which lead is the neck cover ground, then you're free to switch the pickup ground & hot leads as required. You can also use the DMM to check pickup phase (easier on an analog meter but will work on a digital). This is how you learn, and it ain't rocket science.
     
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  19. robt57

    robt57 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Feb 29, 2004
    Portland, OR
    I laid out the ifs and the butts. If what needs to be done can't be understood/extrapolated from the possible scenarios I sited, then I did not help it at all.

    Why don't you go over to his house and help him in case I did not help, despite my attempts via said ifs/butts in my posts. If you wanna keep going back an forth, I yield. Go ahead and have the last word.

    Out
     

  20. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    63
    Apr 11, 2016
    Las Vegas, NV
    C'mon folks, let's not have a piddlin' match while endeavoring to help this guy! :rolleyes: The main point is that he needs to make sure that which ever lead from each pickup is used as the positve lead, is not attached to ground, pickup cover or pickup base plate. Basically, the "+positive" wire for each pickup need to "isolated" from the ground at the pickups as was already mentioned and/or alluded to. This means that whichever pup gets the wiring reversed, need three wires: One for ground/cover or baseplate, one for the +positive connection to the switch and one for the negative wire to the controls, which will inevitably/eventually tie to the ground. Now one of the other ways I was previously referring to would be to (at the neck pup, if it's only a two wire pup) would be to swap which of the output leads the cover jumper is attached to. It's my personal opinion though, that the best way is to simply use three wires! and FWIW, the bridge pup (it equipped with a base plate) also usually has a jumper tying the wire intended for the negative to that plate and to ground!

    And as for a piddlin' match, it's a well known and proven fact that I can piddle farther, faster, harder and more than the best of 'em! :D

    So There! :p
    Gene
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
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