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Middle Position Sounding Bad after PU replacement

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Veeseaczar, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

    Age:
    26
    38
    Oct 28, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN
    Wanted to know what would cause this:

    Today I had the Squier bridge pickup replaced with a Vintage Broadcaster from Seymour Duncan. Sounds lovely.

    But now the middle position doesn't just sound out of phase... Its sounds almost unusable. It's as if someone threw the choke switch on a Jaguar. Also sounds more like the bridge pickup with something missing rather than it a blend of the two pickups.

    What would cause this? Crossed wire leads in the electronics? Winding direction mismatch? Major pickup output discrepancies?

    I should that say prior, the neck pickup was replaced with a stock Fender MIM and there was no issue in the middle position sound.

    Whatsmore, the output of each pickup in isolation sounds significantly more balanced vs. the other than it used to. I say that to address the details of a scenario where pickup output is the issue.


    I have no idea how this all works, p.s.
     
  2. tubejockey

    tubejockey Tele-Meister

    287
    Nov 25, 2015
    the bozone
    Most likely you just have them out of phase. Cuts all the low end out. SDs are phase reversed compared to Fenders.
     
  3. DougM

    DougM Tele-Afflicted

    Jul 5, 2017
    Honolulu, HI
    Tubejockey is correct. Just reverse the wiring of one of the pickups.
     
  4. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

    Age:
    26
    38
    Oct 28, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN

    Other threads made it sound as if it mattered which pickup wiring was flipped. But you all are saying "just pick one and flip it"?
     
    irie likes this.
  5. Mincer

    Mincer Tele-Meister

    Age:
    48
    318
    Dec 19, 2017
    Tampa Bay Area
    Modern Fender/Squier pickups are out of phase with Seymour Duncans. Just reverse the hot and ground- I probably would do it on the neck pickup.
     
  6. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Dec 29, 2010
    Illinois
    If the neck pickup is the typical Telecaster pickup with a metal cover, you'd have to cut the jumper that grounds the cover, then add a new cover ground wire. You could then swap the neck pickup leads.

    Much easier to swap the bridge pickup leads.
     
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  7. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

    Age:
    26
    38
    Oct 28, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN
    These comments are not in consensus
    Haaalp.
     
  8. warrent

    warrent Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 15, 2009
    toronto
    swap the bridge pick up wires it's easier. the metal casing on the neck pick up is conected to ground so you would have to separate the the casing from the ground wire and connect it to the hot wire if you were going to swap the neck pickup wires.
    If you had say, two strat pickups it would not matter which one you chose to reverse the wiring on.

    edit:
    Read on and ignore this post your bridge pickup has a grounded bottom plate so you are going to have to modify the bridge or the neck.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  9. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Dec 29, 2010
    Illinois
    Never mind.
     
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  10. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

    Age:
    26
    38
    Oct 28, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN
    That's two for "bridge is easier" with similar arguments. My mind rests easy.

    Thanks gentlemen.
     
  11. TwangyWhammy

    TwangyWhammy Friend of Leo's

    Jan 10, 2014
    Under the DownUnder
    So... did it work out ok?
     
  12. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 19, 2011
    Merseyside UK
    The SD Broadcaster (STL-1B) is fitted with a grounded metal baseplate which in turn provides the bridge plate ground so which ever pickup you choose you will need to do some wiring modification.
    Seymour_Duncan_STL-1B_bttm.jpg
     
  13. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Doesn't really which one, but the neck is usually less hassle to remove and mod.


    http://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_4wayinfo.html
    ^^^
    Bottom of the page, snip the bare jumper off as close to the "A" solder glob (eyelet) as you can, then solder a wire to that stub of wire (or to the solder blob at "C"... that's the cover tab) and run it to the back of a pot, GROUND. You end up with a THREE wire pickup, good for 4 way switch and/or phase reversal.
     
    warrent likes this.
  14. warrent

    warrent Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 15, 2009
    toronto
    You are right. I forgot it had the plate on the bridge. So maybe switching and modifying the neck would be easier. Sound wise it won't mater which you choose.
     
  15. Mincer

    Mincer Tele-Meister

    Age:
    48
    318
    Dec 19, 2017
    Tampa Bay Area
    I always thought modifying the neck would be easier. But, just pick one and go with it. It doesn't sound good now.
     
  16. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Veeseaczar, this thread is perfectly clear to someone with experience; however imho it might be a bit cloudy to the inexperienced. Considering that both the neck and the bridge pickup have one end of the winding tied to ground...the bridge through that plate nd the neck through the cover....it is necessary to break that ground connection on one of those pickups...as sjtalon describes for the bridge. Then you can flip the two winding ends and correct the problem. It matters not which pickup you choose to this for. I tend to choose not to disturb the bridge once a Guitar is setup.
    OMMV.
     
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  17. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

    IF the neck pickup has a metal cover, yeah, that cover would have to be isolated before the advice to switch leads on it would work.

    I like to snip the jumper to the cover and solder on a separate insulated ground lead for the cover; then the covered "T" neck pickup's leads can be swapped. We gotta do this to use a 4 way switch to enjoy N + B both in parallel and in series - which is my "default" tele wiring arrangement now.
     
  18. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

    Age:
    26
    38
    Oct 28, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN
    Had the dude swap the wire leads and no sound came out.


    Clearly I dont understand what I asked him to do.
     
  19. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

    Age:
    26
    38
    Oct 28, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN
    Also I did that before I read y'alls replies.
     
    Wally likes this.
  20. Veeseaczar

    Veeseaczar TDPRI Member

    Age:
    26
    38
    Oct 28, 2016
    Chattanooga, TN
    Hahah welp... Read that just a little late.


    Ok, so I'm basically electrically illiterate, but I'll try my best to summarize what I believe is being said to me:

    Both pickups have a ground lead *as well as* a little jumper to ground the metal plate bit attatched to it (base plate for bridge, metal cover in neck).

    In order to fix the issue, the jumper between the cover and the "ground lead" needs to be cut, and then replaced with a dedicated wire, grounded by soldering to the volume pot case.

    Then, and only then, can the original leads from the pickup be reversed and still produce a sound.

    Edit: I guess I dont know the difference between a "negative lead" and a "grounding lead".


    Am I correct?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    Wally likes this.
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