MIA Strat 2001 EMG DG20 White body? (URGENT HELP!)

Discussion in 'Stratocaster Discussion Forum' started by RedStratMaster, May 24, 2019.

  1. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    Guys, I need your urgent help! I beg it! Here is whats "the problem" and try to answer all my question to help me and find aout about this guitar.

    Ok, first of all, I found my favourite color Strat (MIA) to buy... Don't ask about price etc, its not important.. Just try to answer those things which are bother me very much.

    The Strat is - "Made in USA". It's 2001, serial on the headstock is : Z1029215.
    When I went on this site to identify guitar by it's serial number :
    https://www.fender.com/product-registration/serial-search-results

    Site founds out that the name of this guitar is :
    AMERICAN DOUBLE FAT STRAT® (2000-2003)
    Serial #: Z1029215 Brand: Fender Product Category: Guitars

    Also, the owner of the guitar disassemble neck form the body and we could see date - "18 apr 2001" which means when the neck is built.

    Right now, on this "White rosewood USA Stratocaster" is pickguard from Fender with EMG DG-20 (David Gilmour) pickups set. And thats ok, I will have some question about that later.

    What bother me about this guitar?

    1) Guitar is heavy. Heavier than other ALDER USA Strats. Why? Is this ALDER body or maybe poplar, ass or even basswood (I suspect maybe body is from the other guitar (Mexico ones? Japanese one? Or some "no name body" ? )

    2) I thought this guitar was "Fender Stratocaster Standard Arctic White 2001 with SSS conforugarion", but when I wrote serial code into Fenders site (see above) I found out this was AMERICAN DOUBLE FAT STRAT form 2001/2002. Whaat? Is this real or what?

    3) The next problem which bothers me is this: Owner said guitar body has "unfamous swimming pool routing" under the pickguard. Did those 2001 Strats had "swimming pool route? I thought I was reading here that swimming pool was just in 90's, and with 2000 and until now that swimming pool has changed to HSS or HSH... SO HOW CAN THIS BODY FROM 2001 TO HAVE SWIMMING POOL ROUTE?

    I suspect that ONLY NECK is from 2001, and body is different - maybe from other guitar. From which one? Is this some "Frankenstrat" guys? Please help me I am hopeless, I like color of the guitar, David Gilmour EMG set, guitar plays fine, BUT... I am not gonna buy Frankenstrat, USA made neck and "who knows what body".

    4) Can we trace down which 2001 Strat models had this WHITE COLOR? Its interesting, its not "Olympic White" cause OW is "creamy white one". This is something like ARCTIC WHITE, or POLAR WHITE, or SNOW white. Body is white like snow, like pickguard - the are the same exact color.

    5) The last thing which bother me! - The owner said, the original 11 screw Fender pickguard couldn't match "guitar body's wholes" :eek:Whaaat? Yeah, that was my reaction. So what he did? He cut some of the plastic from the pickguard so pickguard screws could match guitar body wholes for the screws. Jesus, how even is this possible ?
    I thought all Fender 11 screw pickguard could easily match every MIA original guitar body, how could those 2 be "matchless" so you need to cut a little bit that pickguard to become matchable?

    And yeah, the one reason more to think - that white guitar body IS NOT MIA, its not from Standard series or AMERICAN DOUBLE FAT STRAT. Heey, or American double fat strat body has different positions for the screw holes than MIA Standard series? Is this answer and solution for the thinking problem? Or is it fake body?

    I am gonna put you some pics guys so you could see it all by yourself....

    So I assume that was "AMERICAN DOUBLE FAT STRAT" and first owner replace H-H pickguard and put some random SSS, and those last owner (which is selling) put EMG DG20 pickguard on it, but not with original EMG perloid pickgurad - He used just EMG SA pickups and EXG and SPC pots and put them on Fender 3ply all-white pickguard. Which he need to cut a little bit cause "the screws didnt match with guitar body holes for the screws.

    And could somebody know something about this color? Did Arctic white or "Whatever this white is" exist in 2001? On Standard or American Double fat strat" guitars?

    Please help me, I am thinking to buy it but I will not if I found out the body isnt original.
     

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  2. John C

    John C Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I doubt the body was original unless it was refinished and redrilled. In 2001 the American Double Fat Strat was only available in 3-color burst, black candy apple red, shoreline gold, teal green metallic or translucent white blonde; the white blonde was ash while all other colors were alder. Plus it would have the American Series/American Standard 2-post tremolo with the satin-finish cast saddles. And the screw positions would be the same on a 2001 Double Fat, Texas Special Fat Strat, Texas Special, and "regular" Strat. None of these was available in any shade of white but the white blonde/ash body. And you are correct that the American Series/"Hot Rodded American Series" (the Double Fat Strat, etc.) would have all had the HSH body rout, not the swimming pool rout. The pool rout was done by early 2000, just before the original American Standards were replaced by the American Series in July 2000.

    MIM Standards were available in arctic white, and the AVRI '62 Strat was available in Olympic white in 2001. American Standards were available in Olympic white in the 1990s, and they would have had the swimming pool rout. But they would have also come with the 2-post tremolo.

    Speaking of tremolos - this one has a 6-screw vintage trem, not the 2-post trem an American Double Fat would have had. I'm not sure about the trem - it looks like it has been "evolving" also - first changing from bent steel saddles to solid saddles, and the arm has changed from the normal arm to a thicker, straight arm without a tip.

    Without the seller showing the body with the pickguard removed who knows what it is. Also he never shows the back of the body to see if the trem cover plate has the single rectangular hole for the strings and offset middle screws like would be found on the USA model.

    So we know that it's a USA neck with Fender locking tuners added after the fact (the Fender tuners with the "F" logo don't start until 2006/2007) and he put together an EMG DG set on some kind of poorly fitting pickguard.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  3. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    John, first of all, thank you for your answer. Deep, professional, and lot of infos.

    Hey sorry I forgot to mention some details about this guitar :

    1) First pics are sellers pics.. Few weeks/months ago. In first pics you see "Fender vintage saddles". On the middle pictures you probably see "Graphtech saddles". Last 3 pics were taken by me, at his place while I was testing guitars, and thats the gutiar now - He puts those "Fender blocks saddles" and tremolo bar as you see it...". But he said "buyer could chose which saddles he wants, and he will put them. I like those block saddles...its not that important so much for me... The other fellas on the other forums like this told me something that "6 screws tremolo cant be insert on American made body, just those 2 point-tremolos, cause in those 2001. Fender put just 2-point tremolos. So, that is "proof" that this body is not and cant be "USA made", and is God knows what...

    2) I didnt make photo of the back of the guitar - But back is like this: Guitar doesnt have those "Fender, Corona, California" neckplate with microtilt hole. It has some Gold color neckplate and it says just "Fender". No hole for micro tilt. I asked him if he put that neckplate - he said - Yeah I put it. When I asked him what was neckplate when you bought guitar from Ebay, he said something like "It was just empty neckplate without any letters, words not Corona California, not Fender, not even "F" letter on it". So it was "blank" no name, like those on Mexicans :eek: Which makes me suspicious maybe its Mexican body!

    3) Also did I mention above "story about the pickguard" ? Yeah, you probably knows EMG DG20 set comes default by perloid pickguard. What he has done is that he didnt like that perloid pickguard, he unmount EMG SA pickups and DG20 pots and all electronics and put it on a 3ply white pickguard as you could see in the pictures, and then try to insert on this Strat. BUT !!!! He said, 11 screws from pickguard COULDN'T MATCH the 11 holes in guitar body! :eek: Wtf ? How that could be possible?
    He said that pickguard was "Fender original".
    And than he said he NEEDS TO CUT A LITTLE BIT OF THAT PICKGUARD so it could fit perfectly and to screws match screw holes on body. Otherwise he couldnt scew it with screws.

    Jesus, that was ALARM FOR ME to thing "something here is not right!"

    You probably cant see on pictures, but live, if you carefully see, there is a "free space" "free room", between end of the neck, and beginning of the pickguard at neck pick up position.
    Now I will mark you that positions and sent picture to figure it out where are they and where he cuts the pickguard.
    So you could see there are some "free space" and the end of the neck, and it shouldnt bee "free space", cause end of the neck and beginning of the pickguard must match perfectly.

    Also, at the end of the pickguard - he cuts a little bit of plastic, so pickguard could fit beginning of the tremolo!

    How can that be - you buy Fender pickguard and you have USA body and it cant match properly, you need to cut something, and screws cant match holes in the body? Even if the body was Mexican, once again, how it could be possible that Fender original pickguard cant match Mexican Fender body?

    Here is the pic so tell me what do you think now, and is there any question I could answer to you if you need more information about anything..

    P.s. Oh yeah, I asked him is there any serial, or code or anything on the inside of that body, did he see something cause he opened that pickguard to replace the 9v battery for the EMG pickups and he said - NO. There is NOTHING. Like the neck has "18 jan 2001" date.
     

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    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  4. John C

    John C Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I saw that you had a long thread on Strat-Talk that got deleted. I had only read part of it when I had to stop reading; when I came back a hour later it was gone.

    But that is absolutely true that you can't swap a 6-screw tremolo on a Fender 2-post tremolo body without removing the brass bushings the 2 posts screw into, filling the holes, and redrilling the body for the 6-screw tremolo - which this body shows no signs of that kind of work. Plus the seller says it has the swimming pool rout under the pickguard - which stop on American Standard Strats during 1999.

    This is definitely a parts guitar - USA neck on some other body. Someone in that thread suggested it might be a Blacktop Strat body - that's as good a guess as any as it could be some kind of generic/non-Fender body. Without detailed photos of the body we have no idea what it really is, but for 100% sure it isn't an American Double Fat Strat body that would match the neck.
     
  5. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's

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    Best way to tell is to remove that pick guard, then you will see if it is Fender or not. Doesn't sound like it is, but I am not sure that it is really all that important either. A body by Fender is not really any different than say from Warmoth, it is the neck that is more unique. When you get right down to it, every guitar is a partscaster, just that one is made at the factory and one is assembled by a player. As long as it doesn't have a "Made in the USA" price tag, it wouldn't really matter to me.

    That said, you might be better off looking for one of the Jimmy Vaughn Strats which I consider a real bargain. Olympic white, a great neck, good pups....a winner all around.
     
  6. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    Plus the seller says it has the swimming pool rout under the pickguard -

    "which stop on American Standard Strats during 1999."


    Hey John is this the ultimate truth without exceptions? Cause this information would mean a lot to me! Nobody in the "Strat-talk" forum mention this - that only guitars until 1999 had swimming pool.

    If that is the ultimate truth without exception - That means any strat which has Swimming pool route is <2000 year strat! This one has SP route = which means this body is at least 1999. year and maybe older! Which means further that it is proven 100% that those neck is not from that body, that guitar is not "factory made", its "Partscaster with 2001 neck and God knows what kind body from god know what kind year but its not 2001.

    And thats the only thing I wanted to know. :)

    Besides that, people also saw that "2 pivot Vs 6 screws tremolo thing" which implies again that is not American body...

    And aslo nobody knows information about Fender built Arctic White body color in 2001 in any series of Stratocaster so yeah, probably its Mexico Arctic White 90's body with poplar wood (which is very heavy and this guitar is heavy), or maybe its some Fender MIA body but from 90's also, and the first owner build Partcaster, buy buying neck and later body via internet and then sold to the last man who bought it and thought "Its 2001 Fender Strat Standard" lol, and wanted to sell me even he didnt knows that guitar is. He likes it and use it a few years, but now he is old and he is quiting so he is selling all of his gear and instruments...
     
  7. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    Thank you for suggestions and reply mate! ;) Cheers
     
  8. John C

    John C Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Yes - without exceptions the USA swimming pool bodies did not have the traditional rounded over contours like the body on this guitar. The USA bodies on original American Standard series bodies (1986-circa April/May 2000) had blockier contours/sharper edges/whatever you want to call it - kind of like the contours on a Jackson (I'm talking about the radius of the curve of the edges of the body, not necessarily the depth of the tummy cut on the back or the depth of the arm contour on the front). And from all my research Fender did phase out the swimming pool bodies on American Standards during 1999, so some 1999s of any given color will have the swimming pool rout while others have the HSH rout.

    Since the body on this guitar you're looking at has the rounder/more vintage style contours it is not a 1986-1999 American Standard Body that had been reworked.

    Regarding Arctic white - that color was definitely on MIM Standards and other MIM models in the 2001 time frame. But it was not used on USA models in that time frame.

    I firmly believe the guitar you're looking at is a USA neck (from the American Double Fat Strat) on some other body that is at best an MIM Fender from one of their lower lines like the Blacktop series; even the Standard series had an HSS rout instead of the swimming pool; the only ones with the full swimming pool after 1999 were the Blacktops.
     
  9. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Tele-Afflicted

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    The 2014 Mexican Hot Rod FSR HH Strats were also swimming pool rout. Possibly derived from the Blacktop series.
     
  10. Nick Fanis

    Nick Fanis Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    This is a US neck and a MIM body.
     
  11. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    Are you sure mate? Why do you think that? Please explain to me, why do you think its Mexican, maybe its "No Name body" or some Chinese replica, or "Hand made body" and could cost 20$ :(

    All I know is that body is super heavy - I mean the whole guitar is very heavy (which I like lol it feels "more professional when its heavy = my moto", )

    And I know that it was "swimming pool route". And the body didnt match Fender mask with EMG's . (Mask is not EMG's perloid, its white 3ply by Fender, original...).

    Why original Fender mask couldn match Mexican body then? Cause Mexican body is produced by Fender company also... Makes no sense, right...
     
  12. Nick Fanis

    Nick Fanis Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Sorry I meant at "least" MIM body.

    If the guitar is very heavy the body must be cheap, Plywood bodies usually are.
     
  13. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    Heey, please take a look again in my pictures, and make attention about those pickguard screws - look those one between neck and middle pickup! WTF? :eek: Why is it positioned there? It should be nearer middle pickup, not between middle and neck... Take a look of any other strat and any other pickguard - not even one is like this one! Wtf!? Why the seller could install this pickguard if the screw in this pickguard is in the other position? Does that means body hole is also in that exact position (right between middle and neck pickup 50%-50%).

    So all of this is somehow "connected" to the sellers talking that "he had to cut a little bit of the pickguard cause "it wasnt good match with guitar body.

    What the hell is wrong here - Body or pickguard? (this one screw have totally CRAZY position between the middle and neck pickups, it should be nearer to the Middle one...).

    Maybe original perloid EMG pickguard (plastic mask) COULDNT FIT this body, because of that one screw/guitar body hole", so he switched masks (pickguards) and put all those DG20 electronics (pots) and 3 EMG SA pickups on this CRAZY 3ply pickguard for which he said "its Fenders original", but until now, I didnt realize its so different than any other pickguard on internet...

    Jesus, this becomes my own hell, wth is this?

    P.s. He is willing to sell me guitar 150 euros less, then the first original price he was asking...I dont know what to do.. :/
     
  14. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    A)
    "Yes - without exceptions the USA swimming pool bodies did not have the traditional rounded over contours like the body on this guitar. "
    B)
    "Since the body on this guitar you're looking at has the rounder/more vintage style contours it is not a 1986-1999 American Standard Body that had been reworked."

    Than what the hell is this body if this body has vintage style contours but has also HHH or pool route?

    And please what about those one screw on pickguard between middle and neck pickup? Why that position, there is no any other Strat on internet with that position....
     
  15. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's

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    You know that the neck goes to a Fender Double Fat Strat which means the body originally has 2 humbuckers installed. If the seller changed the pick guard with one carrying 3 EMG pickups, maybe that screw would orientate the way that it does? This is really a simple investigation, remove the pick guard and see if it has the 2 humbucker cut-outs and a likely crude third cut-out for the middle pickup addition. You say that it has a bath tub routing, then the seller must have carved out the center section which should also be obvious upon inspection.

    The double fat strats were not cheap and the necks are good ones...which is the important thing here. The body might be swamp ash which can be pretty heavy or it might be a one piece body from somebody like Warmoth or something. Bottom line, take that pick guard off and see what you really have for a body.
     
  16. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    1) I cant take off pickguard now, the guitar is not with me anymore, I had it for inspection just one day when I was visiting the seller in other city...

    2) It doesnt exist - "H-H" routing. Its SSS HSS, or HHH-pool routing, there is no "just H-H with wood between.

    3) The seller puts EMG's but he replaced those EMG's perloid original pickguard with this one you can see on pictures here... And original perloid EMG pickguard had a DIFFERENT POSITION for that one screw, like every other NORMAL pickguard! I still dont understand how could exist this kind of pickguard with that 1 screw on WRONG position and those body which obviously match those 1 screw with its hole for it.

    I search internet and I cant find this kind of a pickguard, and he said "Its Fender original 3ply pickguard".

    4) HE SAID HE HAD TO CUT A LITTLE BIT PLASTIC FROM THE PICKGUARD so it could match properly on the body...Thats very suspicious and I didnt undestand him that day what he is trying to say... Its very very suspicious, pls help me investigate this...Why would he needs to cut a pickguard and why this totaly crazy screw position...
     
  17. RedStratMaster

    RedStratMaster TDPRI Member

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    Hey everybody take a look of the screw down, near "pickup selector" - its parallel with this middle pickup screw, and thats also NOT NORMAL like on any other Fender pickguard.. Wtf.. :eek: This is becoming nightmare...
     
  18. harold h

    harold h Friend of Leo's

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    Why would it be a nightmare? It is not a Fender, once you accept that and
    move on you can find something else.

    You are putting out threads on every forum hoping for some kind of validation-
    that is not going to happen because it is not what the seller says it is.

    That body looks like it may even be plywood, and that would also explain the
    weight. Just walk away and move on to finding another one.
     
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  19. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    It's whatever you want it to be, seeing as you refuse to accept what it actually is. Nobody cares.

    Also, why do you give your location as Miami, when you are actually in Serbia?
     
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  20. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's

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    You have a quality neck, good pickups, and a nice looking instrument. The body, pickguard, or both are not actual Fender parts...again so what? It could be a Mexico or Japan body or any number of other makers out there today. If you like it and the price is in step with it being a parts caster guitar, then go for it. If it is priced as a complete Fender strat, walk away as it clearly isn't. The fact that you were able to remove the neck for inspection shows that the seller believes it is a Fender body, so he was duped by someone else. Don't be the next sucker on the list. Price it correctly and play it if it interests you.
     
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