Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Little wiring questions...

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by beninma, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Age:
    21
    Nov 27, 2014
    Morley, England
    No problem, I was just checking you didn't get stuck with a lemon, everything sounds good though. Your wiring upgrade sounds like it's made a massive improvement.
     

  2. beninma

    beninma Tele-Meister

    Age:
    40
    306
    Mar 17, 2017
    Massachusetts
    Yes... I'm really happy. I probably still need to dial in the neck pickup some more but overall it's just great. I'm not sure how much is the pickups vs the wiring but the ability to roll off the tone really adds a lot! For some reason it just didn't do much before. There are some positions with the tone rolled off between a hair and 1/4 turn that are really nice now.
     

  3. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Age:
    21
    Nov 27, 2014
    Morley, England
    are the lollars brighter than the stock pickups, maybe the tone control has more to roll off in a pleasing way?
     

  4. beninma

    beninma Tele-Meister

    Age:
    40
    306
    Mar 17, 2017
    Massachusetts
    Not sure but I think they might actually be a little less bright.

    It could be the tone cap has a different value and/or is just a better match with these pickups.
     
    john_cribbin likes this.

  5. moosie

    moosie Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Next you'll be buying a silverface Twin or something :rolleyes::D
     
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  6. beninma

    beninma Tele-Meister

    Age:
    40
    306
    Mar 17, 2017
    Massachusetts
    Not likely, pretty happy with my amp, and playing with amps would take a lot of motivation, I've shocked myself in the past and amps have a lot of juice.

    I need to try and figure out what the original tone cap was. The original was a tan disc shaped cap, I saw some rumors/speculation these are 0.022uf? The new one is an orange drop 0.047uf.
     

  7. moosie

    moosie Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Do you have a multimeter with a capacitance feature?

    That's a ceramic cap, and they come in all sizes. As to what Fender would have used - .022, or .047uf, I don't know. It's not always accurate, but you could look up your guitar model's service diagram, where all parts are listed.

    https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000820646-Telecaster-Service-Diagrams

    Others might disagree, but in my experience, the composition of the guitar tone cap is meaningless. 10¢ ceramics are fine. Also, the main difference between the two cap values is pot sweep. The larger cap will get muddy and real dark, while there's still a lot of pot sweep left. I prefer .022 or even .01, because they're useful across the whole pot.


    Yep, it does take some motivation, to learn how to be safe working in a live amp chassis. The voltages are lethal. But past that, those old amps are a joy to work on. :)
     
    grooveiron likes this.

  8. beninma

    beninma Tele-Meister

    Age:
    40
    306
    Mar 17, 2017
    Massachusetts
    That page is a great resource. My multimeter does not have a capacitance feature.

    If I can trust that diagram the old tone cap was 0.05 so no real difference.

    The actual wiring diagram they list for standard telecaster does not match what was in my guitar though, it leaves out the cavity grounding. So who knows what else is wrong.

    The wiring of the selector switch + pots/cap is accurate to what was in my guitar though.

    The stock wiring of mine seems to match the diagram for the American Telecaster that's dated 2000.

    So maybe they just didn't update the page whenever they started putting the shielding paint in MIM guitars.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017

  9. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Glad you got that sorted out. It sounds like a major success. I looked at those Lollars when I was chasing Tone. Good choice.

    Regarding the improvement in your tone control, the value of the cap will make a big difference and so will the type of pot. You may have had a type A (Log) pot in B (Linear) or vice-versa. It could just be a better pot or the treble bleed working well with those pickups.

    Anyway, I’m glad to read your success. Nice job!
     

  10. grooveiron

    grooveiron Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
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    Mar 29, 2008
    Calgary, AB
    ^^
    Agreed!
     

  11. tubejockey

    tubejockey Tele-Meister

    170
    Nov 25, 2015
    the bozone
    A better way to think of it, if we want to simplify things for purposes of discussion, is to see the cap as determining the knee frequency and the pot determining the depth. I also prefer a smaller value cap even as low as u0068F in some cases.
     

  12. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Age:
    21
    Nov 27, 2014
    Morley, England
    If you have the old capacitor you can read the value of on the capacitor, on it somewhere it should have a 3 digit number maybe followed by a letter. 223 would be a 0.022uF cap, 473 would be 0.047uF, 503 would be 0.05uF, you should see the pattern.
     

  13. moosie

    moosie Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Probably right. It's taken for granted, that if it's shielded, the shield is grounded. Or else! :)
     

  14. moosie

    moosie Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    It might simplify things, if one was certain what you meant by knee frequency, and depth. I'm not. Can't imagine I'm the only one. In other words, it's not simpler at all. :rolleyes: Care to clarify?
     

  15. Quacky

    Quacky TDPRI Member

     

  16. tubejockey

    tubejockey Tele-Meister

    170
    Nov 25, 2015
    the bozone
    Just think of knee frequency as the point where the treble starts to roll off. Think of the pot as a variable resistance that isolates your tone from the effect of that cap.

    A larger value cap takes a bigger bite out of your sound, scooping out not just treble but mids as well. A smaller cap takes only treble off, and even with the pot all the way down, leaves you with a warmer, thicker sound. This is why it seems that the whole range of the pot is useable with a smaller cap.

    I like to select the cap value by ear, (or trial and error), for each guitar. Some pickups respond well with something as small as 6n8F, some end up with u01F, but none larger than that.
     
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  17. moosie

    moosie Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Thanks for the clarification. I do actually think of it that way, I just don't use those words, so I didn't recognize my own mental model...

    I agree that's more accurate as to what's happening in a theoretical sense. In a practical sense, the difference sounds to me like more or less useable region on the pot sweep.


    When you talk about how cool it is to drive stick in a fast car, do you talk gear ratios, or about how it pushes you back in the seat, with the wind in your hair? Different strokes, I guess. :)
     
    tubejockey likes this.

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