Kluson Tone Pros vintage tuners - why the shaft collar?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by rze99, May 27, 2019.

  1. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Just going to fit these Kluson Tone Pro vintage style tuners.

    The bushings fitted beautifully, but there's an unusual collar on the shaft preventing insertion at the back of the headstock.

    Other vintage tuners don't t have this.

    Now I have to do more working to drill the tuner holes wider to accept the wider collar.

    Grrrr. What's the point of the collar?

    15589478412277257720589251907137.jpg
     
  2. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    To provide more stability/support to the shaft and centre the shaft more precisely on the neck?

    Kluson press in bushings usually require the holes to be reamed to fit.

    Looks like you just traded off having to ream the holes to fit the bushings for having to drill the back of the headstock to fit those collars. Much the same thing.

    You could probably just use the same hand reamer to remove that little step of material on the rear of the tuner hole making the hole one size rather than stepped and they might fit without the need to drill.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  3. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yes that's what I have to do. The collar seems unnecessary to me.
     
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  4. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have some tonepros vintage kluson tulip tuners on my les pauls and they are nice sturdy feeling tuners. I haven't tried the strat style. I use actual Klusons, wd versions or classic vibe tuners when fitting on my tele's, strats. That extra support on the shaft cant hurt and is probably a improvement other than being a pita to fit.
     
  5. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Tele-Afflicted

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    I'd sell them and get a set of Gotoh SD91 tuners rather than enlarge the holes in the headstock.
     
  6. viking

    viking Friend of Leo's

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    +1 , who needs a set of " almost " vintage tuners ?
    The quality of the mentioned Gotohs are much higher than the original stuff...
     
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  7. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    The 'Kluson' branded tuners are cast chassis and cast shell made of a steel alloy. They are crush-staked together via cast pins. Over time they can loosen and simply fall apart

    They are not true reissues of what came on Fender and Gibson vintage guitars. Those were stamped covers and bases clinched together with folded over tags. I've never seen one in pieces.

    I too would sell them and get Gotohs rather than drill out the back of a guitar neck. If you were putting together a Partscaster or already had 10mm holes and using conversion bushings.

    It's not that the are bad. The trademarked 'Klusons' can fall apart and they may not be repaired . The vintage and Gotoh versions are supported by the gear at one end and the tuner bush pressed into the headstock face.
     
  8. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Holic

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    If it helps, I've been looking into tuners for a Partscaster project. I found Axecaster stock these Gotoh ones at a decent price and they are aged.

    https://www.axecaster.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=229

    Or the non-aged version for a bit less:

    https://www.axecaster.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35&products_id=228

    I'm thinking of getting a MIM Fender neck, so I'm investigating which tuners will fit as I find the whole bushing/adaptor thing a bit confusing. Do you know if I could fit either of the above directly to a replacement 'Classic 50s' Tele neck as they don't put the hole sizes in the details?

    https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Fender-Telecaster-Neck-50s-Classic-Lacquer-Maple/236L
     
  9. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    Gotoh SD91 8.8mm bushes fitted my MIM Classic Player 50s Strat. The posts wouldn't fit through the original Fender bushes.
     
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  10. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire

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    I love those Tone Pros tuners. They seem to stay tight and uniform turning pressure. So much better than standard Klusons. I've put them on a few guitars. Std Klusons are pretty good but every once in a while you get one out of six that is just sloppy loose for some reason.
    I dont remember having any issue seems like the collar was the same size as the bushings....? But it's been a while. Is your guitar "step drilled"?
     
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  11. KelvinS1965

    KelvinS1965 Tele-Holic

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    Thanks. I'd be buying a bare neck, so sounds like I'll be OK if I buy the tuners with the 8.8mm bushes then, cheers. :)

    Sorry for butting into your thread RZE99.
     
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  12. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    If you do decide to sell them have a look for the Kluson branded supreme staggered tuners. They are nickel, look vintage but are 19:1 gear ratio. I recently fitted a set on a flame roasted Allparts neck and they are the nicest vintage style tuners I have ever used. Tight and precise. The reviews place them above the gotoh equivalents and they cost me the same as standard wd Kluson branded tuners and less than the Gotoh staggered.

    When going for period correct looking I prefer the Kluson stamped single or doube line nickel tuners for early 60's through later 60's. The unstamped are ok on 50's but not true to appearance on most 60's fenders. If going unstamped I just get classic vibe nickel tuners as they are as good as any vintage style on the market but can be had for a lot less if you hunt for used or good deals on ebay.

    I would just use those tuners though if they are nickel. I doubt they will fail in the next 20 plus years and selling to re buy is a pita. The solid base looks good on those and probably preferable to the real deal.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  13. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    I've never seen these but I'd bet money the idea is the collar at the base of the shaft is the same diameter as the bushing for the top, IOW, you just drill one size hole and everything lines up.

    Is this right, Mr. OP?
    Rex
     
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  14. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Hi, OP here.

    That would be logical, but no, the bushings fit the existing holes (as drilled by Allparts) perfectly.

    The collar diameter is a bit wider than the whole,.so that side of the whole needs to be reamed or drilled wider.
     
  15. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Tele-Afflicted

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    WD Music who own the Kluson brand name in the US stopped Tonepros using the name several years ago. Are they still available?
     
  16. rze99

    rze99 Poster Extraordinaire

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    No. These are the old TonePro 50s vintage set in Nickel and I acquired them as an unused pack from a UK chat board source.

    Super high quality. There are still some old stock for sale out there. bloody expensive. I got them about half new price.

    PS I've decided to ream the back to get them to fit. The tuners feel great!
     
  17. Vizcaster

    Vizcaster Friend of Leo's

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    I wouldn't want anyone to get the impression that Tonepros was not supposed to be using the name "Kluson." Rather than another license holder "stopping" them, it's more like they bought a license to the name for a certain period of time and it ran out or they don't use it anymore. Or they simply made a decision not to market tuning machines anymore (which seems to be the case from their November 2014 press release, I couldn't verify the source of it so I won't re-publish the link).

    I do happen to find that TonePros hardware was top quality, both bridges and tuners. I have a few sets of their tuners and bridges, some of them are on Gibson guitars from the Memphis Custom factory.

    Meanwhile Gotoh has done just fine making safe-t-post six-in-line tuners without any writing on them and the lack of the word "Kluson" doesn't seem to have hurt their business.
     
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  18. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Tele-Afflicted

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    The press release was posted on the TonePros website. It has since been removed.
    http://www.tonepros.com/whats-new/

    Important Announcement

    from

    TonePros/TonePros Kluson

    It is with great regret, that we must now announce the discontinuance of our popular “award winning” TPK/TonePros Kluson line of Tuner products. TonePros halted production of all TPK tuner products in November 2014, and the entire remaining supply of these products will now be channeled to our Authorized TPK/TonePros Distributors before May 10th 2015. Our “revolutionary” design concepts in sealed tuner engineering, including TonePros “Sonic Gasket Technology” made these tuners the choice of the world’s top artists and world’s best guitar manufacturers. Over the last decade, TonePros/TPK has supplied enough tuner sets to equip over 100,000 guitars for Gibson’s* USA factories. TonePros/TPK has also been a “Custom” supplier of tuners to elite guitar makers such as Tom Anderson*, Roger Sadowsky*, and James Trussart* to name just a few.

    If you wish to upgrade your guitar, or in some cases return your guitar to “classic” or “stock”, you must act quickly to obtain one of these last remaining sets, by contract TonePros will NOT have any inventory or remaining stock after the May 10th date so we may be unable to help you… when these sets are gone, they are gone… and will not be available in the future.

    Remember one important thing also, if it does not say “TonePros TPK” on the package or TPK on the tuner itself, then TonePros did not make it. Don’t be fooled by other products or accept substitutes, if you wish to obtain one of these last available TPK Tuner sets, please contact one of our authorized distributors listed below or contact your local professional music dealer:

    Companies do not suddenly stop production of "popular award winning" products for no good commercial reason.
     
  19. RottenTheCat

    RottenTheCat TDPRI Member

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    Not sure if this matters, but I once worked on a guitar that had bushings pressed in on the face of the headstock, and behind the headstock, sunk in, and hidden by the "vintage" tuners. It was an SG Jr as I recall. Its owner said it helped with tuning stability. I dunno. But I do know that "vintage" style tuners can have tight/loose spots in their rotation, if the shaft is tilted a tiny bit, aka, not perfectly aligned, so I guess it makes sense.
     
  20. Jimmy Owen

    Jimmy Owen Tele-Holic

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    I recall that when I was fixin to replace the Kluson-style tuners on my custom shop J 50, I almost ordered the Tone Pros from Darren Riley—but he told me about the collars and sold me a set of gotohs instead. They’ve worked perfectly.
     
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