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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Kemper vs 20 year old POD...

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by Fenderflame, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Friend of Leo's

    Apr 3, 2015
    Winchester, VA
    I'm learning that with regard to peoples' opinions of modeling amps, it's pretty much the same scenario as with analog/tube amps: everyone hears what they want to hear.
     
    wabashslim and pondcaster like this.

  2. Hexabuzz

    Hexabuzz Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 13, 2014
    Northeast PA
    Just a thought - Wouldn't you say, compared to the real, carefully recorded track, that a scratch track, even with a real amp, just laid down quickly, without being as careful to dial in a tone or mic placement (and even performance, for feel and accuracy), would be inferior, too?

    Not defending modelers, just saying that I don't think the "I can tell the difference" comment in this case is totally valid.

    If they spent as much time carefully recording a modeler for the final track, it might be just as good as a real amp, no?
     
    3-Chord-Genius and StrangerNY like this.

  3. wabashslim

    wabashslim Tele-Meister

    319
    Nov 26, 2005
    That's what I did too sometimes. I mean, it was still not close to a real amp's response but for a digital gadget it beat the POD in that regard. I finally got rid of all that crap, Valvetronix too, years ago...not that I'm 100% all-tube these days since I'm a home-bound player but I'm less impressed by "the latest developments".
     
    Antoon likes this.

  4. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    27
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    Honestly, I'd argue we spent more time dialing in all the modeling stuff. (I thnk it's just the nature of modelers, though) With the amps it's almost as simple as plopping a mic in front of the speaker and recording after the tweaking some knobs on the amp. My friend is a bit of a perfectionist, and even on scratch tracks he spends hours tweaking the modeled guitar tones, subbing out different amp models, speaker arrangements etc. I think for him a lot of it is trying to familiarize himself with all the features as well as testing out people's models from the 'ToneCloud'


    My buddy is trying to incorporate the BIAS as his stage rig, so taking the time to dial in the tones, and get more familiar with the program isn't exactly time wasted, it still isn't getting quite there IMO.

    In defense of modelers, though, just to show I'm not completely biased, I did get some great tones plopping a $99 USB mic in front of my Vox VT40 modeling amp, yesterday
     

  5. Antoon

    Antoon Tele-Holic

    633
    Feb 10, 2010
    Low Lands
    For recording the original POD is still a very usable piece of equipment IMO. Live however, where the amp is used as a musical instrument, all Line6 stuff sucked IMO. I remember having a stand next to the Line6 stand at a guitar show and had to listen to their amps demonstrations all day and me and all the other guys around me HATED how they sounded. They all had a very harsh thin sound at higher volume. I also hated how players using these amps sounded in the clubs I visited: the same harsh artificial compressed sound. Truely horrible. The audience doesn't care? A harsh and ****ty sounding instrument will annoy anyone inside, even those that don't care for the music
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017

  6. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    57
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    Criticnet has read your comment.
    Criticnet remembers.
    Criticnet will visit you when you least expect it.

    Always remember:
    The audience doesn't care.
    Repeat after criticnet:
    The audience doesn't care.
    You are the audience.
    You do not care.
    You cannot hear the difference.
    You are criticnet.
     

  7. jvin248

    jvin248 Friend of Leo's

    Apr 18, 2014
    Near Detroit, MI
    .

    21:00min in:
    Lee: "Whenever I meet brands like Line 6 and their competitors at places like the NAMM show they ask 'well what do you think the next product should be?' And I'm like 'an updated version of this [POD]' ... I don't want to have to be thinking about do I adjust the bias and the sag ... I just want a good amp sound and bass middle and treble [knobs] ..."
    Rob: "Simplicity wins the game"

    It will be interesting to see which company takes up that challenge, maybe they can package it in a pedal board friendly shape this time. However, the field has changed some, I remembered seeing the video below a while back (fun to watch the giggling audience you can see what they are thinking when the player sets up and then their reaction after). See how light his rig is.

    Edit: Second video, looks like they made some upgrades on the system (Summer NAMM 2017).



    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017

  8. luckett

    luckett Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 14, 2011
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  9. jvin248

    jvin248 Friend of Leo's

    Apr 18, 2014
    Near Detroit, MI
    I forgot about that one, but it's a bit more than 'a pedal'.

    Very fine line on the user interfaces between less knobs and deeper menus or a lot more knobs and flat menus.

    Then back to a guitar straight into an amp, lol.

    .
     

  10. blowery

    blowery Tele-Meister

    334
    Nov 10, 2015
    CO
    exactly... It's pretty much the same as ALL sound...everyone hears what they want to hear.
     

  11. StrangerNY

    StrangerNY Tele-Afflicted

    Atomic Amps makes this one, and it's an excellent modeler. And in a pedal shape to boot.



    - D
     

  12. ebb soul

    ebb soul Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    57
    Jun 7, 2016
    Smyrna georgia
    I don't think POD tones have been beat, till this day. The format, on the other hand..
     
    3-Chord-Genius likes this.

  13. blowery

    blowery Tele-Meister

    334
    Nov 10, 2015
    CO
    Not to be a jerk, but for all these stories of people saying they sounded thin/crappy/harsh at a gig, you get a chunk of people saying they had guitar guys coming up after the gig trying to figure out what gear they were playing...then not believing it when it was a POD or some other digital wonder do it all.

    I've heard crappy/thin/buzzy/muddy/junk tones from high dollar tube amps to the cheapest digital or solid state crap on the market....I've also heard excellent tones from the above scenario.

    I'd venture a guess that almost everyone couldn't tell the difference live/recorded with a competent player in a blind test with todays modelers or even SS amps. I will say I was not impressed at all with the older generation modelers.

    I'm not saying you are wrong, we all hear things differently.

    Thats the problem with testing something subjective. Way too many people listen with their eyes.
     
    codamedia and Badspike like this.

  14. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2009
    Western Canada
    I go direct for about 50% of my gigs... and I encounter your latter scenario at least twice a year. Even when tone puts a smile on their face a non-believer remains a non-believer once they learn it's digital.

    Exactly... All mediums (tube, solid state, digital) have the ability to sound great in the hands of one person and terrible in the hands of another.
    In discussions, have you ever noticed a tube amp always sounds great because it's a tube amp, while a solid state or modeler only sounds great because it's the player :lol:.
     
    blowery likes this.

  15. Kojer

    Kojer Tele-Meister

    367
    Sep 11, 2015
    Manila, PH
    I agree with the feel and response is lacking in modelers i'ved tried. Its like the guitar version of lip synching. But I do want to try the kemper, i'ved heard they are much better.
     

  16. ccotton

    ccotton TDPRI Member

    Age:
    33
    84
    Jun 6, 2016
    Ohio
    as a kemper owner (please dont hurt me) i can say that the feel is there for me. at least when playing through my 4x12 mesa slant cab. if i'm direct then yeah...forget about feel. the big point here though is the simplicity of the POD. there is NO simplicity with the kemper. you can get great tones out of the kemper but it can take some dialing on certain profiles. this is of course a "to each their own" situation but some profiles just stand out as amazing from the get go while others need some tweaking to get to your liking. i dont have any issues with head room personally either. what usually gets more attention isnt the "whoa that tone" (which has happened) but more so, "WTH is that space station thing on your cab!?"

    i would actually really like to check out one of the new headrush modelers. i like that it's all in the footswitch and has a touch screen to make profile setup much easier and from the demos i've heard, they sound good.
     

  17. ebb soul

    ebb soul Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    57
    Jun 7, 2016
    Smyrna georgia
    The mind is easily fooled. It will hear what you expect to hear.
    You can't really expect class A single ended dynamics, but I have no issue getting 90% of what I want with
    Moddelers. Even having won battle of the bands with one, against the biggest iron in the business.
     
    blowery likes this.

  18. blowery

    blowery Tele-Meister

    334
    Nov 10, 2015
    CO
    Exactly. Tube/SS/Modelling great tones can be had. They all have pro's and cons.

    Here is a little clip I did. Now it could be a tube amp, SS or digital amp??? I have them, but which did I record?
     

  19. burntfrijoles

    burntfrijoles Friend of Leo's

    Feb 12, 2010
    Jacksonville
    POD's were impressive back in the day because they were ahead of everything else. In retrospect they weren't that hot IMO. I don't much stock in youtube videos for these kinds of things.

    Regardless, I am not investing anymore in modeling technology than I have in my Mustang GT40. It has it's limits but I'm not chasing a Kemper, Helix or a Fractal. I am sticking with tube amps. I can buy a blackface Fender like a PRRI or DRRI, a Vox AC15 and Marshall DSL40 for the price of a Helix coupled with a good FRFR speaker.

    I would only consider a bigger investment in a modeling if I lived in an apartment.
     

  20. radiocaster

    radiocaster Friend of Leo's

    Aug 18, 2015
    europe
    By far the worst sounding was the Amplifire. Does it suck? Have no idea, but I wouldn't recommend getting any of these just to use the presets.
     

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