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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Kemper vs 20 year old POD...

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by Fenderflame, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Fenderflame

    Fenderflame Tele-Holic

    519
    Aug 2, 2013
    Mid Sussex, UK
    Actually quite surprised how good the PHD is :



    Can you spot the elephant in the room?
     

  2. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Sep 18, 2011
    los angeles
    Those old pods weren't bad as far as sound, (tho not great by any stretch) but they were utterly horrendous in dynamics/feel/touch. As bad as an old 70's peavey SS.
     

  3. SweetClyde99

    SweetClyde99 Tele-Meister

    341
    Feb 1, 2016
    Jefferson City, MO
    The old POD really surprised me there. I thought it sounded better than whatever that other red modeler-thing was. I had a Line 6 Tone Port years ago, which I think should be pretty comparable in terms of modeling technology, and I recall it sounding much fizzier than the POD in that demo. Maybe I've been blaming the Tone Port for years when the real issue was a set of garbage speaker.
     
    JasonKingsX likes this.

  4. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    172
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    FRFR still is not on par with a good guitar speaker? "You can model my amps but you'll never take my cabs!" - Mel Gibson in Blackstar.
     

  5. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Friend of Leo's

    Apr 3, 2015
    Winchester, VA
    I saw this a couple of days ago and was going to post it here. Very interesting - the old POD unit held its own. All three units sound a little different, but when listening to amp models consideration needs to be made for different speaker and cab models, mic distances used when developing the model, etc. So there will be variances; however the $50 red thing from 20 years ago sounds pretty friggin' good. Might have to so some eBay browsing......
     

  6. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    172
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    Fender4life overstated IMO it but it is true that the POD will not offer the same amp feel that some prefer. Tones aside I need that feel. I've taken 2nd rate tone up a notch or two just by having feel and being connected in the loop between guitar, amp and fingers.
     

  7. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Friend of Leo's

    Apr 3, 2015
    Winchester, VA
    The "feel" thing that some say is lacking might simply be the fact that the modelers are probably not blasting 100W at our heads. I think if we played a modeling unit through a loud power amp we'd have the "feel" thing.
     
    codamedia likes this.

  8. JasonKingsX

    JasonKingsX Tele-Meister

    172
    May 15, 2017
    Austin
    Nope. I get feel on good amps at low volume.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
    JD0x0 likes this.

  9. Jakeboy

    Jakeboy Tele-Afflicted

    Jul 26, 2008
    Sedalia, MO
    So do I. 5 watt tweed Champ and a 1 watt Marshall JMP which is f***ing awesome.

    That said my POD2.0 that I used to have sounded damn wonderful through a Tech21 Power Engine 60 watt power amp.
     
    3-Chord-Genius and Hexabuzz like this.

  10. RifleSlinger

    RifleSlinger Tele-Meister

    Age:
    43
    117
    Mar 12, 2016
    Washington
    Thank you for helping me to feel better about my only amp, POD 2.0 through a Fender 15w bass amp.
     

  11. luckett

    luckett Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    What's the difference between the original red bean and the 2.0 red bean?
     

  12. TimothyC

    TimothyC Tele-Holic

    917
    May 12, 2016
    California
    They'd all be usable in a practice or gig situation. Maybe even better than a traditional amp depending on the PA. But man, those kempers impress me every time.
     
    ccotton and 3-Chord-Genius like this.

  13. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2009
    Western Canada
    I bought the original POD as soon as it came out and the ads started flooding guitar player magazine. I used it for 10+ years in the studio, but never bonded with it live (tried... many times). My biggest complaint of those original beans (POD 1 and POD 2) was the lack of clean headroom. I could not get a loud enough signal with a clean sound.

    I somewhat agree with this... if it lacks dynamics/feel, turning up the monitor always helped. But there is no question the newer modelers feel much more realistic than the original Bean(s) did.

    Not much. V2 gave you access to the cabinet models, extra amps and a few features from the POD itself... the original required a computer to access some of the extras. V2 also had a completely new set of presets (all higher gain) that auto loaded as you changed amp models. This was great for people that didn't know the amps, but a real hindrance to those that didn't want high gain jumping in your face everytime you changed an amp model.

    For those that already owed the original, the V2 update chip was available and was a 5 minute change. After a chip change, the only difference between the original and V2 was the graphics on the POD itself... which made it tough to choose a cabinet model without having the cheat sheet available.
     
    jvin248 and 3-Chord-Genius like this.

  14. blowery

    blowery Tele-Meister

    332
    Nov 10, 2015
    CO
    I think the large problem with This video is the fact that they are mic'ing a FRFR speaker. :confused: That doesn't really make sense.
    Why not split off the signal and go direct for the recording and use the frfr for their monitor?
     
    jdto likes this.

  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    There seems to clearly be a sliding scale with the "feel" issue.
    Kemper has much better feel than the POD, but a really good tube amp has better feel than a Kemper, and a good Dumble style (or Trainwreck style) amp has better feel than most other good tube amps.
    How much feel do we need and what price are we willing to pay in terms of money spent and weight hauled as well as number of preset sounds available.

    More volume providing that "feel"?

    No that is not what "feel" is.
    Certainly playing loud gives more of a "feel" to playing electric guitar because the speakers drive the strings and complete the loop.

    But the "feel" that modelers lack and keep trying to improve upon is the wide range of varying sounds available entirely through picking and muting technique. And it's not simply the ability to get some grit with a harder attack.
    Kemper keeps getting better and is way ahead of the old PODs in terms of feel.

    But as the internet keeps driving down our throats, the audience can't tell and doesn't care what we feel.
     
    JD0x0 likes this.

  16. jimash

    jimash Friend of Leo's

    Nov 5, 2013
    NJ
    I hear the same thing. Not just line 6. Nearly all the modelers I have tried were weak in the clean.
     
    JD0x0 likes this.

  17. wabashslim

    wabashslim Tele-Meister

    319
    Nov 26, 2005
    For clean sounds the Yamaha DG Stomp was hugely superior to the POD. It was capable of a passable clean-to-just-barely-dirty transition which the POD never could do. And you could turn off the modeling part and just run it as a conventional stompbox although that wasn't it's strong suit.

    I'm thinking some of you guys might be watching this video and remembering your early days of fascination with your PODS 20 years ago and forgetting all the frustration you felt in subsequent years trying to make it sound good, or realistic, or right. Like bumping into the ex-wife (or whatever), having a fun lunch together, and forgetting all about the hell you went through to make her your ex- . DON'T DO IT! Remember you sold that POS at a great loss for a reason. The POD I mean...

    Think George Costanza getting back together with Susan.
     
    Shango66 and Antoon like this.

  18. StrangerNY

    StrangerNY Tele-Afflicted

    I got the POD v1 and a Flextone XL as soon as they hit my friendly local music store. While the Flex is still in good working order, it's been retired to storage because it's pretty bulky and my back gives me the Big Nope when it's time to move it.

    I've used the POD in my demo studio pretty much since I got it. Since it shows no signs of breaking down, it stays in the rig.

    - D
     

  19. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    27
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    Yeah, it's not volume. I have loud modeling amps, and it's not the volume which creates the 'feel'
    I've never had a modeler that could essentially go from clean to 'metal' with purely picking dynamics, like I can get with a responsive amp.




    When people think or claim 'the audience can't tell' there's still a significant percentage who can. Albeit, the majority of the audience probably can't tell much difference. Also, if 'Feel' or lack of it is affecting the player's enthusiasm as well as their expressiveness, it's going to change how they play/sound.



    My friend recently started recording heavily using BIAS on his PC. They record scratch tracks with the bias, and then later come in with mic'd amps. I can tell the recorded difference right away. The amps always bloom and seems to sound more full in the mix. The program has some amazing features, and you can do things like run two amps with 6 different speaker cabs, each, but even with all the tuning and tweakability, such as that, the tone seems to fall short, and I believe the 'feel' and response has a lot to do with it. Because on paper, we should be able to inherently get better sounding stuff through this digital modeling technology just because of the amount of tools we have at our disposal currently.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017

  20. jimash

    jimash Friend of Leo's

    Nov 5, 2013
    NJ
    And I have one of those. When you try to use a clean sound, you have to jack up the output and the sounds are weak. The clean sound has no character, and I usually use the "crunch' for clean.
     

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