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Jazz box with overdrive - how would it sound?

Discussion in 'Other Guitars, other instruments' started by perttime, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. lammie200

    lammie200 Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 11, 2013
    San Francisco
    One way to tell is to look at the tail piece. In most cases a trapeze tail piece will be on a hollow body and a stop tail piece will be on a semi-hollow body. Some semis might have a trapeze, but no hollows (that I know of) will have a stop tailpiece. What is impossible to tell until you really study a guitar in hand is if a guitar is truly hollow or has a sound post under the bridge area that reinforces the top underneath the bridge. Deep hollows - probably not. 2"/2.25"/2.5" depth guitars - maybe. My Gibson ES-390 and Epi Casino Coupe are thin bodies that are fully hollow.
     
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  2. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Wisconsin
    One is a tail stop. A bolted in tail stop has to have more than a thin top to hold the string tension, so if there's no trapeze then it's a semi hollow. Most fully hollow archtops also have a bridge that sits on an archtop base, usually wood, that is held on only by string pressure, friction, and the arch of the top. Like a violin. A notable exception is the gibson 330. The bridge, but not the tailpiece, is bolted down. I assume it has some kind of "sound posts", or maybe just some reinforcement under the bridge. Either way, it's not a traditional archtop. It's kind of an odd ball.

    Some guitars are kind of confusing, but the 335 is the most famous semi hollow, with a big solid slab in the middle where it makes the most difference. It's kind of surprising to me when people don't get that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018

  3. You-Tele-Me

    You-Tele-Me Tele-Meister

    137
    Feb 24, 2017
    Vancouver Island
    The easiest way to tell from a picture is to look at the bridge and tailpiece. If they are stud mounted, there's a block under the top to hold the tension. It may just be a block or it more likely runs all the way from heel to tail. That'll be a semi-hollow.

    If the tailpiece is a trapeze style (ie. runs back to the end pin) and the bridge has a flat wooden base, then the guitar is almost certainly fully hollow.

    A 335 and the like falls into the former category, while a Byrdland and its ilk fall in the latter category. There are of course some oddball exceptions like the first goldtop Les Pauls with the 'trapeze on studs', but that was Gibson coming to grips with the whole solidbody concept back then.

    F-holes are not a clear indicator on their own. in a thinline Tele, the f-hole indicates a hollow part on one side of the guitar, which in this case is mostly solid. I have a hollowbody which has no f-holes as a way to combat feedback. So look to the bridge and tailpiece and you'll nail it most of the time.

    Edit: it appears a couple of great minds were typing faster than me.
     
    3-Chord-Genius likes this.

  4. Ebidis

    Ebidis Tele-Holic

    Age:
    51
    626
    Jun 27, 2016
    Alabama
    My Gretsch sounds fantastic with overdrive, and I haven't had any feedback problems, even at high volumes.

    IMG_1344.JPG
     

  5. ac15

    ac15 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    May 9, 2005
    CHICAGO, IL.
    Yes I see that a lot in general on these threads.

    Having said that, and as an owner of full-size jazz boxes and a thin, fully hollow “jazz box”, thin guitars that are completely hollow do indeed deserve to be considered in the same way as full depth jazz boxes.

    I have one, and it is more “live” and “jazz” sounding than some of my full depth guitars.

    But yeah, 335’s do not count.
     
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  6. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Friend of Leo's

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    Actually JB was much more inventive than that. He had Leo himself install a lap steel pickup and controls on his Epiphone. He used that in conjunction with his DeArmond pickup. He also used a volume pedal to goose up his solos. This was all in the early to mid 40s.
     
    RadioFM74 likes this.

  7. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Wisconsin

    Why would the bridge be a nuisance? That eastman the op posted is absolutely a jazz box. It even has a solid spruce top! This is a much more serious jazz guitar than a full depth archtop with a bridge pickup. Bennedetto and D'Aquisto both make thin, solid top jazz guitars like this.

    This will sound nothing like a 335, or a casino, which is based on a 330 and is nothing like a 335.
     

  8. cabra velha

    cabra velha Tele-Afflicted Platinum Supporter

    Jan 21, 2016
    estados unidos
    I think one of the(possibly the) greatest overdriven tones of all time was PT's full hollow Gretsch 6120, I've never played a Byrdland a-la-Nugent but I have played a 6120 into a very loud Fender Brown Pro and it was a handful, so hats off to Pete and Ted.

    I've read that the Rudy Gelder/Burrell/Green guitar tone was at least in part related to a tweed deluxe that was a Gelder studio fixture, but thats more of a crunch tone to me.
     

  9. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Friend of Leo's

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    We are getting stuck in symantics here it looks like. The OP was asking about full hollow jazz boxes and mild overdrive and feedback.

    There are plenty of recorded and live examples of full hollow jazz boxes playing with overdrive and not having feedback issues. Of course Jimi coaxed lots of feedback out of a solid body. My point in saying that is we don’t need to site the extremes. It’s not really addressing the OP.

    A jazz box with mild overdrive can be a great thing
     

  10. Chicago Matt

    Chicago Matt Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    68
    Aug 23, 2014
    Woodstock
    Well, this overdrive isn't mild, but I wouldn't have thought of this guitar for this.
    start at 1:00:

     
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  11. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Friend of Leo's

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    Gretsches are kind of a different beast. Kind of. Modern ones mostly use trestle bracing and/hav sound posts (some guilds have sound posts). They are designed to combat feedback a little more than gibson’s.
     

  12. Ro_S

    Ro_S Tele-Meister

    188
    Mar 10, 2015
    England
    it cant be intonated

    It's very thin for a jazz box.

    I never said or suggested a Casino was the same as a ES335.
     

  13. Ro_S

    Ro_S Tele-Meister

    188
    Mar 10, 2015
    England
    i concur
     

  14. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Wisconsin
    Sure it can. The whole bridge moves. Saddles are probably compensated for an unwound 3rd string. Bridges can be carved with any intonation you want.
     

  15. Ro_S

    Ro_S Tele-Meister

    188
    Mar 10, 2015
    England
    you cant intonate it per string, that's what i meant. nor can you adjust the height by string.
     

  16. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Wisconsin


    Just in case anyone wants to hear an archtop really fuzzed out. He turns on even more on the ending.
     
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  17. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

    Dec 6, 2015
    Wisconsin
    It's not important. The fretboard radius and scale aren't going to change. It just needs to be done right once. It's worth it for the sound.
     

  18. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    I did not want to be too particular :D … He called his rig his "radio station"! Totally OT, but what an amazing guitarist he was! But to get that sound you need the right AMP. A DeA and steel guitar pickup are not enough. Just like for the Charlie Christian sound. You need an ES-150 and something close to an EH-150 amp.

    Re: what has been said, just three things
    - Thin full hollow can make for legit, excellent jazzboxes… I've played ES-125Ts that were as jazzy as full ES-125s (I actually want a 125, and am still debating which one). They have less acoustic volume, but even full hollowbodies with set pickups are not good acoustic archtops, especially those with a lam top. So if you ask me that Eastman IS a jazzbox under any possible definition of the word;
    - IME (which is limited) 335s and semi-hollows are closer to solid bodies than to hollows
    - the best way to tell if a model is full hollow or semi is … to look at the specs :D
     
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  19. El Marin

    El Marin Tele-Meister

    300
    Mar 19, 2014
    Madrid, Spain, EU
    Have you listen to George Thorogood? That's the answer




    Actually, I am using this right now, a Pat Metheny and it Rocks albeit I am seriously thinking in installing a bridge P90

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

    Aug 14, 2009
    innsmouth, MA
    isn't jazz with OD on it just fusion?
     

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