Is this lacquer blush??

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by nnieman, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. nnieman

    nnieman Tele-Meister

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    A03B33F8-713B-4D09-BA97-21243EB980DA.jpeg 40DFF321-3949-4889-B93B-4920275B867D.jpeg 0199AE63-08F3-41A7-9CA7-105D875C5D6D.jpeg i did a second coat of black in my future esquire yesterday.
    It was pretty humid outside but the shop humidity was between 50-60.

    The front looks good but the back doesn’t.
    I’m assuming that’s blush& it will go away in its own?
    It was not a thick coat and the blush has faded a bit since yesterday.

    I’m using duplicolor - acrylic lacquer.
     
  2. bullfrogblues

    bullfrogblues Friend of Leo's

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    Yes, that looks like blush to me.
    Put a fan directly on it, might help it go away. Not sure about the acrylic lacquer.
     
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  3. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    looks like the lacquer was sprayed while the temperature of the body was cold.. and/or the relative humidity in the room was too high... let it dry a couple of days.. take a gray 3m "scotchbrite" pad.. remove the blush and continue in a dryer warmer place..

    Here's a tip... a lot of guys use a Garage for their shop... often the HVAC air handler is located there too.. if so... install a small register in the duct work.. you can open it and the cool air is also dry., it will displace the humid air in the garage... allowing for blush free spraying .. if that's too cold, a small electric heater will take care of that..


    r
     
  4. eallen

    eallen Tele-Afflicted

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    Pics that make me blush.

    Ron has it!

    Eric
     
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  5. nnieman

    nnieman Tele-Meister

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    Thanks!

    Ron my shop is always heated but I don’t have a spray booth.
    So I open the doors and turn on a fan.
    Yesterday it was rainy so not ideal.

    I heat the garage to 15 degrees but raise it to 18 when gluing or finishing.
    Nathan
     
  6. eallen

    eallen Tele-Afflicted

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    Yeah, spraying in the rain is a sure blush experience. The moisture drops in the air are picked up by the lacquer particles between leaving can and getting to the surface. Never spray on a rainy day.

    Eric
     
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  7. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    yep.. the moisture in the atmosphere is captured in the lacquer as it travels from the nozzle to the body... it is also "imbedded" into the air as the compressor crushed it , then it expands rapidly as the gun is spraying.... if things aren't within a "window of acceptability" the blush is the result..

    The HVAC tip is great...the cooled air is, by default, de-humidified... it's unlikely it's gonna get the garage too cold.. i. e. less than 65 degrees ... but if it does... the heater will take care of it...

    and yeah... if it's raining ... get a good cigar, a good scotch, and take a breather on the patio... covered I trust..

    r
     
  8. nnieman

    nnieman Tele-Meister

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    Do I have to respray the black before I can clear?
    Or do you think I can lightly sand/scotchbrite the blush off?

    Thanks

    Nathan
     
  9. bullfrogblues

    bullfrogblues Friend of Leo's

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    If it was nitro, Behlen makes a rattle can of "Blush Remover" that works pretty well. Not sure if it will work on acrylic.
    you also might get away with blowing hot air on it with a hair blow dryer, but from a distance. You don't want it to get too hot.
     
  10. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    I would respray... actually from the looks of what ya have already,. I'd stop with the color.. lay down a few coats of the grey lacquer sanding sealer.. you want it perfectly smooth because all those undulations in the surface will be apparent through the clear coat..''

    get it dead perfect smooth, sand it with 28 0 or around that.. then apply the black... then the clear.. by the way black is one of the more difficult colors to do.. everything and anything shows up on it.. I have a Black car.. it is only clean and shiny for about 5 minutes after I take it thorough the 40.00 car wash... even air leaves a spot.... :p

    r
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  11. eallen

    eallen Tele-Afflicted

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    I would echo Ron's suggestion on grey sanding primer. I noticed some rough textures in the wood when on your original pics that look to be inadequate sanding and filling. How ever much you see them now clear coat is going to make them jump out like mountains with black. Black is as unforgiving as it is beautiful.

    Eric
     
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  12. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Just remember the more perfect you have the surface before you apply the color, the easier it will be to achieve an acceptable polish when time comes...

    rk
     
  13. sfcmark

    sfcmark Tele-Meister

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    I wish I had known you were a cigar and scotch guy when I had the pleasure of visiting your shop, Ron. I might have come bearing gifts (besides the Duo Sonic body, that is).

    BTW, I never did get to see how that red Duo Sonic you were building came out.

    Mark
     
  14. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    here ya go.. one or the other....


    ron

    DSC_3969.jpeg DSCN1872.jpeg
     
  15. nnieman

    nnieman Tele-Meister

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    Awesome thanks

    Sorry for the delay in responding, I did not realize the thread had been moved.

    No grain filler on this one, its going to be a heavy relic.

    I don't know if lacquer blush is a look though....maybe I will be a trend setter.

    The previous owner of this body had already started to relic it, including some very deep scratches.
    He started to paint it without sanding out the dips from the thickness planer.
    So I'm trying to make the best of it.

    I figured that I have enough spare parts to put an esquire together and its a 4lb swamp ash body (not easy to come by in the great white north!!).


    The forecast for the next week is rain rain snow and rain.
    I wont try to spray anymore until the weather cooperates or I find a spray booth to borrow.

    Nathan
     
  16. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    it won't

    How thick WAS it? Ideally you should apply each coat very thinly in 3 VERY light passes each. A "coat" should nnot fully cover - the first coat or two should be transparent. If you applied thin coats like you would paint coats it was WAY too thick and you have trapped moisture. You'll need blush remover to "release" it - a very tricky application.

    You don't "apply" it - you fog it over the surface at a right angle and let it drift down. With the amount you have it may take several tries, and there will likely be some runs to fix. It works on both nitro and acrylic lacquer - the solvents...which are the major components of blush remover....are the components that make lacquer coats melt together.

    Did you practice application on scrap first? If not you should stop and do the WHOLE process on scrap - including final buffing - before continuing. Black is the single most difficult opaque color in finishing as it shows every tiny defect - but no mater what finish you use (or color) you should always prepare and finish scrap wood, working out ALL the details and techniques first, before trying to do the real thing.
     
  17. nnieman

    nnieman Tele-Meister

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    Thanks

    Its been over a week and it hasn't changed.
    I will sand/scrape it off and start over.

    I'll give it a good sand and try to minimize the "relic" job the previous owner did too.

    This is my 5th black guitar.
    My normal process is learned from Ron Kirn & reading here.

    I sand to 220.
    Wipe on 2 thin coats of shellac (mixed from flakes).
    Sand with 400.
    Fill grain - water based, usually 2 passes.
    Sand with 400.
    Another 2 thin coats of shellac.
    Quick flatten with 400 grit.
    Colour coat - each coat is 3 passes as described above.
    2 coats to get coverage - more for sparkly colours
    Then clear.

    I have never had blush like this before....but this has been a crazy cold and wet spring.
    I have 4 bodies to paint and 2 necks to clear since January.
    I think I am just getting ansy and spraying when I shouldn't have.

    Nathan
     
  18. philosofriend

    philosofriend Tele-Holic

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    You can try spraying just thinner on it, a light even coat while the back is horizontal. There is this nasty poison liquid called butyl cellusolve that is often described as "retarder" that can dissolve through the lacquer, let the water escape, then dry slowly. I buy it at a store that services professional painters. These approaches if you are lucky don't require respraying.

    Easier to sand and respray.
     
  19. Festus_Hagen

    Festus_Hagen Tele-Meister

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    I've had that happen in high humidity before myself. Once I actually could see the spray collecting moisture as I sprayed. I did one pass and stopped after seeing it, but the damage was done. I was devastated . I read somewhere that if you let it dry a bit, then sprayed it again in a good, low humidity environment it MAY go away.

    I brought it inside (A/C was on upstairs) and sprayed the spot again, and it instantly went away. As was said above, it needs to release that moisture and spraying it again does that in some way.

    It's probably been too long on yours, but what do you have to lose by spraying a pass or 2 in low humidity just to see?
     
  20. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    you don't have to sand the finish completely off... just a medium level sanding and a sanding sealer will suffice... then a good filler primer like the grey lacquer filler, then sand that nice and level...

    If you're gonna beat the crap out of it, I mean like a good old Southern ass-whuppin' then none of this matters... just go at it.

    rk
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 12:44 PM
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