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I read Kinman's noiseless pickup patents (links to full patent with drawings).

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by Golem, Jan 1, 2018.

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  1. Golem

    Golem Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    I went over these briefly yesterday so I'm certain I'm missing important details.

    The earliest seems mostly just to describe stacked singles but tries to differentiate what makes his approach unique from earlier attempts (otherwise why grant a new patent?): https://www.google.com/patents/US5668520

    I noticed this describes the shielding he uses a bit to isolate the upper and lower coils. Even my oldest set has this shielding. The first time I took the covers off of his pickups, this is what I noticed: https://www.google.com/patents/US6103966

    This one I didn't get after a quick read through. I'm kind of hoping someone can give me some better into insight as to what the point of this patent is. https://www.google.com/patents/US7022909

    Magnetic flux concentrator! This patent describes increasing the efficiency of the pickup. I suspect is a big factor in what makes his Extra Vintage Astound work the way it does. https://www.google.ch/patents/US8791351

    I kind of wish he went into a bit more detail of the design of his pickups and what makes them unique on his own site the way Bill Lawrence does and the way the guy who makes Zexcoils does. As it is, I hate his marketing but love his pickups. It's not voodoo. It's part science, part experience, and a bit of an art as well.
     

  2. Peltogyne

    Peltogyne Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 29, 2012
    Northern California
    I read through one quickly. It seems like BS.

    We have the assumption that a patent means the claim is unique and verified. It really doesn't. I just did some prototyping for someone with hip replacement patents. The patent didn't function as designed since it was never built or tested but the patent was awarded.

    You can get almost anything patented these days and it appears these designs were made with the goal of getting a patent for marketing purposes. I'm sure his attorneys would disagree.
     

  3. Golem

    Golem Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    The shielding isn't BS. That's pretty well documented outside of his pickups. Take the jaguar for example.
     
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  4. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 2, 2014
    west coast
    I'm not sure how effective that shielding is. Nobody has really presented hard data showing that it's more than just a gimmick. The fact that it's not a mod readily offered for Strat pickups, or that Tele pickups were never retrofitted with side shielding suggests it's meh in practice.
     
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  5. Peltogyne

    Peltogyne Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 29, 2012
    Northern California
    It it's well documented outside his pickups then he is patenting existing tech.
     

  6. ac15

    ac15 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    May 9, 2005
    CHICAGO, IL.
    All I know is that I used to scoff at Kinman’s site where he points out how many extra parts are in his pickups versus others. Then I had a severe noise problem with my Jazzmaster and bought his “Surfmaster” set. I now think Kinman is hands down the best pickup maker out there because he makes great, vintage sounding pickups that actually solve a problem.

    However he does it...
     
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  7. Danjabellza

    Danjabellza Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 22, 2014
    Pahrump, nv
    Isn’t he a member here? Maybe he’ll elaborate himself.
     

  8. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 2, 2014
    west coast
    The patents aren't total BS. There's a mix of truth an guess work. For example, in one patent he notes that DiMarzio's single pole pieces that extend all the way through the stack causes the two coils to magnetically couple more efficiently, which is bad because the two coils produce magnetic fields that are directly opposite each other, therefore reducing inductance, and so it appeared his patent was merely to use separate pole pieces for each coil. That makes sense, and I think the stacks made by other companies use "through" pole pieces as well, because it's probably cheaper to manufacture, and there are less parts involved, even though it's technically inferior.

    But then there is guess work: "Unfortunately this noise-sensing coil often chokes or constricts the subtle nuances of tone that are otherwise present in the string-sensing pickup coil because of excessive coil capacitance.", the only reason you'd say "subtle nuances of tone" is because you don't actually know exactly what it is you're describing. We live in a physical world, anything that happens within it that can be fully described. Sometimes people say "to make a long story short" to suggest they know the whole story and don't want to bother you with the details, when in truth they really just don't know the whole story.
     

  9. john_cribbin

    john_cribbin Tele-Holic

    929
    Nov 26, 2014
    London
    It's only snake oil if they don't work.

    They do and sound a lot better than the Fender Noiseless I used to have.
     
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  10. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Tele-Afflicted

    Jun 2, 2014
    west coast
    The degree to which guitarists confuse objective with subjective goals is astonishing and heartbreaking.
     

  11. Old Tele man

    Old Tele man Friend of Leo's

    May 10, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Patents are "legal" descriptions and illustrations of marketing BS, well obscured within technical jargon, obscuration, and fluff, ie: "...new and improved...BS"
     
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  12. Peltogyne

    Peltogyne Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 29, 2012
    Northern California
    I think that's pretty accurate for the majority of them.
     

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