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I need a tough EL84...

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by E5RSY, Oct 11, 2018 at 11:18 PM.

  1. E5RSY

    E5RSY Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    51
    Mar 5, 2009
    Georgetown, TX
    ...because my Pro Junior beats the crap out of them and turns them into baby rattles after awhile. The new JJs I put in it didn't stand a chance. I have some 50+ year old Mullards that have held up better, but one of them still has a bit of rattle.

    Recommendations?

    Thanks,
    Scott
     

  2. Rick330man

    Rick330man Tele-Holic

    715
    Jan 9, 2011
    Florida Keys
    Go to theTubeStore or McShane audio and pick up some old Soviet military 6P14P-EVs. I've got a bunch of them. I also have JJs, Eis, Sovteks, Teslas and RCAs to compare them to. This model Soviet military tube will survive where other EL84 types won't.
     
    Les Paul lover, awasson and E5RSY like this.

  3. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 16, 2003
    Godzone
    Sov EL84M - tough tubes.
     
    E5RSY likes this.

  4. E5RSY

    E5RSY Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    51
    Mar 5, 2009
    Georgetown, TX
    Couldn't find those at the Tube Store. Could you post a link?
     

  5. Rick330man

    Rick330man Tele-Holic

    715
    Jan 9, 2011
    Florida Keys
    It is the one they sell as their "Preferred Series 7189."
     

  6. E5RSY

    E5RSY Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    51
    Mar 5, 2009
    Georgetown, TX
    Thanks.

    McShane's has this one listed...is this the one you were referring to?

    "Sovtek EL84M, a rugged sub for the very scarce 7189, it's the current production version of the well known and liked (and now scarce) 6P14P-EB. $19.50 ea., $39.50/pair, $79.50/quad."

    It's half the price of the Preferred 7189.
     

  7. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    54
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    uriah1 and Chunkocaster like this.

  8. Rick330man

    Rick330man Tele-Holic

    715
    Jan 9, 2011
    Florida Keys
    Sort of. The EL84M is supposedly the current commercial production version of the 6P14P-EV and is made in the Reflektor (Sovtek) factory. The tubes I am referring to bear the 6P14P-EV designation. They were made not for commercial use, but for the Soviet military back in the days when they needed top quality tubes to run military hardware. When the military demand dried up, the story is that Sovtek elected to produce a commercial version the civilian markets. That became the EL84M.

    However, there is some question as to whether the quality of the commercial tube (EL84M) was the same as the military version. Many musicians who used the early commercial version thought it sounded dull. Reviews by musicians were unflattering. That led folks to seek out the 6P14P military versions - of which there are a few variants: 6P14P (2000 hour service life); 6P14P-K (designed to withstand high vibration for 3000 hours of service life); 6P14P-ER (10,000 service life); 6P14P-EV (5000 hour service life).

    I have a quad of 6P14P-EVs in a Crate Vintage Club 50 head. That head cooks EL84s running them at near 400 volts on the plates. It came stock loaded with regular Sovtek EL84s, which have survived fine and sound better in that amp than in any other amp in which I have ever heard them. To my ears, the problem with the Sovtek EL84 is that it is midrange heavy. The 6P14P-EV has a more even tone distribution and delivers a nicer, fuller, more pleasing tone.

    I also have a pair of 6P14P-EVs in a Monoprice 15/Laney Cub12R. That amp is only running at about 292 volts on the plates, so the 6P14P-EVs will last forever in there. But I didn't put them in there for that reason. I tried all of my different EL84s in that amp: Shuguangs, JJs, Teslas, Eis, Sovteks, Gold Lions, etc. To my ears, the amp sounded best with the 6P14P-EVs.

    Hope I didn't put you to sleep with all of this and that it helps you.
     

  9. E5RSY

    E5RSY Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    51
    Mar 5, 2009
    Georgetown, TX
    No, that's good stuff. Thanks.

    So the "EB" on McShane's site is a mis-print? It should be "EV"?

    RSY
     

  10. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine

  11. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    54
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    Did you look at the link I posted? It’s right above the one you posted in the quote.

    I believe they are the real deal. They’re $59.99 for a quad and sound better than the JJ’S I replaced them with by night and day.
     

  12. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    28
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    Mil spec tubes...

    Also, change the screen resistors. Stock value is 100 ohms, you should probably have a 1k-1.5K here for safety, and upgrade the wattage, while you're at it.


    my friend got one of these two months ago and it already killed the power tubes, as well. I advised the mods so he doesn't end up having to constantly retube it, even with mil spec tubes.

    FWIW that amp runs EL84's over the manufacture's max spec, hence the issues. I think it's running plates around 329VDC and screens around 308VDC. Max rated spec is 300VDC...

    http://ampwares.com/schematics/blues_jr.pdf


    https://drtube.com/datasheets/el84-jj2003.pdf
     
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  13. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    54
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    “EB” in Russian characters translates to “EV” and the “N” character translates to “P”.

    So 6N14N-EB translates to 6P14P-EV.
     
    Rick330man likes this.

  14. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Tele-Holic

    851
    Aug 10, 2018
    In space with Ziggy

  15. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Holic

    530
    Oct 6, 2015
    blu ridge mtn cabin
    I've been running the 6p14p type tubes in my pro jr for a while now.
    They have held up amazingly well! Got mine from Viva Tubes.

    I got my Jr when they first came out, and the first mod was to run the
    tubes a bit cooler by changing R29 from 15k to 20k. Should help your
    power tubes survive.

    Don't know if later ones still use the retainers with 2 long springs and
    the aluminium bar, but that can sure set up annoying ringing also.
     

  16. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Sep 13, 2008
    Lansing, MI
    I would also recommend adjusting the bias on the amp a bit - either with resistor swapping or adding a bias pot. That way you don't need to chase down exotic tubes.
     
    RLee77 likes this.

  17. BluesOwl

    BluesOwl Tele-Holic

    838
    Feb 15, 2005
    MI

  18. schmee

    schmee Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2003
    northwest
    JJ's worked well in my Z Ghia... which was running something like 450 volts on the plates! I did buy some of the Soviet military tubes but never used them before I sold the amp.
     

  19. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    28
    Feb 22, 2009
    New York
    I'm confused. Do you have a schematic? R29 on the Blues Jr schematic I have, is the midrange pot..

    The amp is still running over plate and screen voltage max spec, I suspect, this is where most of the abuse is coming from. Biasing cooler can help as a bandaid, but the plates were really not meant to have 330VDC on them..



    I'm going to assume you mean 350Volts because 450VDC is 150VDC over JJ's max rated spec for plate voltage.
     

  20. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    54
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    He does not appear to sell pairs currently but the quads are so cheap, I figured what the heck.

    My TT Clone runs things a little on the hot side; a little hotter than a standard TT but it’s not as hot as Traynor used to run theirs. My JJ’s sounded ok and could tolerate the abuse but they sounded a little brittle at the top end. The 6P14P-EV sound nice and big without the brittle top end. Night and day improvement, which is what I had read.
     
    Chunkocaster likes this.

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