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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

I met an old friend, got a surprise

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by Rollmeaway, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Yep, neck plate date is definitely '71, and from the natural patina of the finish I don't doubt it's a '71. The Clapton story is certainly wrong based on dates, unless he bought a couple more.

    Removing the neck does not hurt the guitar at all. It *has* to be done to adjust the truss rod. Necks are commonly removed to verify dates on vintage pieces where there are neck stamps. Verification on one like this is threefold plus - neck plate (which is easily switched - I have a "reverse plate switch" problem , a '62 Jazz bass with a '68 plate!), neck stamp, pot dates, and wiring, finish inside cavities and neck pocket, pickups, solder joints, and any pencil marks.

    This guitar should not have solder joints touched unless there are failed pots, pickup or jack. I suggest not doing much in the way of polishing (just clean it). It'd likely be a nice player, but the other option is selling it. A '71 like this with the case in that condition (once the year is verified), even with minor corrosion, may fetch a premium over Vintage Price Guide high "book" price. And that's not an insignificant amount!
     
    hemmings, Rollmeaway and Tremade like this.

  2. Rollmeaway

    Rollmeaway TDPRI Member

    Age:
    63
    34
    Jun 26, 2016
    Fayetteville, NC
    Yep, I'm sure a buyer would want to see the neck and body routs. I know I would before laying down big bucks.

    I am a former vintage Harley rider and builder. This is the typical '49 Panhead found in a barn that we used to dream of.

    I don't know what my friend intends to do with it. I think he got his hopes raised by my interest and excitement over the guitar in the several hours I hung out there.

    I'm no expert on guitars or a luthier. I have been around guitars since a child. My father was a gigging guitarist since before my memory. He taught me what he knew about guitars and I learned a lot on my own. I know my friend, and I examined this guitar for several hours and researched it online with every free resource I could. I have never seen anything like it. I put no stock in my friend's Clapton connection. My friend had a stroke or something similar. He lost oxygen to his brain for a significant time and went into a coma. I think he's a little confused. He is adamant that an employee of the Fender company who worked at the factory in New Jersey gave him one of the guitars that EC ordered. Fender never had a factory on the east coast. I called Fender direct and they confirmed it. Personally, I think his friend worked at a dealership and might have mentioned that EC had a guitar like this one. The years and his stroke might have him believing a dream.

    I believe this guitar was either a factory workers guitar or a Fender dealers guitar. Either way, I have no problem, knowing Bobby as long as I do, that the guitar has never had enough playing time on it to put any discernible wear on the frets or fret board. He took possession of it back in '71 or '72. From first hand examination of it, I believe the neck, pick guard and control plate have never been removed. The guitar has only had one string change in its lifetime. That was about 20 years ago. What is strange is the case. It has a logo on it that Fender only used in one year, 1966!

    I so wish that I could re-string it and set it up. And see if there is any ID that would give me more insight to the guitar. I called Fender and they confirmed that 1971 was the last year considered transition to CBS. It might have parts on it that that date to before '71. They were still using stock that was bought and built in bulk prior to the date on the neck plate. I don't know, I'd just like to see him sell it to someone who will take care of it properly and play it. Would cleaning the frets when re-stringing it devalue it in any way?
     

  3. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    I've had several like that one pass through the vintage broker I've worked with, and it simply looks like a stock '71 that's in excellent condition. There's no way to ID it as a worker or dealer guitar and there's nothing unusual about it. It's not rare - just in better condition than most.
     
    hemmings likes this.

  4. Freewheeler

    Freewheeler Tele-Afflicted

    Mar 17, 2003
    Helsinki, Finland
    My '69 has no stamp either.
     

  5. vanguard

    vanguard Friend of Leo's

    Feb 7, 2007
    Charleston, SC
    You'd be surprised how many folks F up neck mounting holes, over-tighten and warp the plate into the body, etc.

    lots of other weird things can happen too: factory shims come flying out, neck bolts catch in body and neck holes upon reinsertion (leading the layman to torque harder and potentially cause serious structural damage), cutting new threads into the neck holes rather than reverse threading first to find the original threads, etc.

    Really, it can cause a lot of harm.
     

  6. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    61
    Mar 19, 2006
    Gilbert, AZ (PHX)
    What a sad opinion you have of everyone.

    This ain't rocket surgery... removing 4 screws is within the grasp of a lot more people than you give them credit for.
    Shims don't "come flying out" ... they are not possessed by voodoo.
    So your judgement of people you don't know is that they are all too stupid to take a screw out and put a screw back in without cross threading it?

    This is not hard to do.

    .
     
    Tremade likes this.

  7. vanguard

    vanguard Friend of Leo's

    Feb 7, 2007
    Charleston, SC
    We're not talking driving screws into the new mailbox post, or removing a battery door from a remote control, we're talking about disassembling and reassembling a precision musical instrument. My opinions of "people I don't know" are irrelevant. I know that the average guitar player may not know about over-tightening, cross-threading, neck screws binding in the body, etc. Why would this make them stupid? This is specialized knowledge gained from experience and/or training. I would not remove and replace a component of my car motor myself, even if it were just held on by screws. Why? Because I know it may not be as simple as it appears, and I've never been shown how by someone who knows what they're doing.

    I think your wild assumptions about my general outlook on humanity say a lot more about your own cynicism than anything I've said.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017

  8. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    61
    Mar 19, 2006
    Gilbert, AZ (PHX)
    How sad to think you can't do something without trying. As my uncle used to say "Can't never could do anything".
    I rebuilt car and motorcycle engines since I was a kid. I have built a number of guitars from lumber.
    Good thing I didn't believe anyone that said "you can't do that".
     
    jimytheassassin likes this.

  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    All numbers need to be known...neck, neck plate, body dates if any, and the pot codes. This will establish the 'can be no older than' date. Outside of that, many times the exact year cannot be known. That serial number could place the guitar in two or three...or more years.
    The story that comes with it is of little use or value, imho. IF there was documentation to establish that Clapton did try this guitar along wi the Hyde Park Tele and chose not to take this one, I don't know what that would mean in the marketplace. To me, it is meaningless. To someone else???? Who knows??
     
    Mike Simpson likes this.

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