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I have a challenge for you...

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Sconnie, Nov 9, 2017.

Do you want a switch for your car's headlights?

  1. Yes, I'm an anachronism and I enjoy getting jump-starts from strangers

    8 vote(s)
    32.0%
  2. No, I prefer the roads to be as safe as possible at all times

    11 vote(s)
    44.0%
  3. Leave me alone, if I want to endanger your life that's your problem!

    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  1. Chud

    Chud Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Dec 30, 2010
    New York City
     

  2. Flaneur

    Flaneur Friend of Leo's

    May 24, 2010
    Scotland
    If you believe in legislating, to protect the innocent public from inattentive motorists, I can understand that. In the interest of consistency, though- should you not also legislate against a whole bunch of other potentially dangerous behaviours, which drivers routinely exhibit? Perhaps mirrors should be removed, to discourage drivers from shaving/putting on make-up, while driving? Maybe cell phones could be automatically disabled, when the engine is fired up?

    The OP is the voice of the future. The future is electric- and probably driver-less. If you find modern vehicles inefficient and wasteful, you'll welcome this evolving state of affairs. if you enjoy the challenges of decision making, behind the wheel, you may not share this enthusiasm.
     

  3. teleamp

    teleamp Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    58
    Oct 17, 2006
    Prairie Hill, Texas
    [QUOTE="Sconnie, post: 7977794, member: 13599For some reason, I cannot have my fog lights on without my low-beams on too, so they're not really fog lights are they? :lol: Also, you sound like the most considerate large vehicle driver ever, no one does that for me in my little subie.[/QUOTE]
    I had a Fiesta before the F150...
     
    Sconnie likes this.

  4. bettyseldest

    bettyseldest Tele-Afflicted

    Nov 13, 2011
    UK
    Struggling to understand how someone nearly T-boned you at night. Did you not have your own lights on? did you run a red light?

    If someone has their lights on I can see them, so unless they are dazzling me, I won't run in to them at night.

    But if they drive with their lights on during daylight, in the dry, I can see them but can no longer see anything else with ease. Your pair of 55w lights attract the eye, I no longer notice the pedestrian, the cyclist, horse rider, dog or even unlit car. You have compromised everyone else's safety to make sure that you can be seen.
     

  5. Paul Jenkin

    Paul Jenkin Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    313
    Aug 17, 2017
    Essex, UK
    I'd like vehicles to turn on dipped beam headlights once the engine is running. I think this might have been a legal requirement in Sweden (maybe other parts of Scandinavia) for many years.

    I also fully support as draconian as necessary steps to prevent use of mobile (cell) phones in vehicles other than, perhaps, voice activated. The vast majority of stupid / bad driving I witness in the UK tends to be where drivers are distracted by using their phones. I've even seen people texting while driving....
     
    RomanS likes this.

  6. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Doctor of Teleocity

    Apr 28, 2003
    Nashville, TN
    I have a 20 minute drive to my office every day. I see at least 8 or 10 people texting while driving every single time. These are indeed the most dangerous people on the road right now.
     

  7. Jim622

    Jim622 Tele-Meister

    Do you need an automatic ass wiper too? You should always drive like everyone else are dangerous idiots. If someone is not bright enough to turn on their head lights, lets get them off the road one way or the other, be it the Police or death. Thin the heard.
     

  8. rich815

    rich815 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Mine work fine. Auto or otherwise. For my BMW and Subaru. The Off might leave daylight running lights on which aren’t that bright or blinding at all...
     

  9. Sconnie

    Sconnie Tele-Holic

    Age:
    25
    521
    May 1, 2017
    Denver, CO
    Lots of good stuff here!

    Most people use their vehicles only for driving. That is also their primary function, not a generator for your tools or a heater for your camping trip. Driving on the road takes precedent over everything. I'm not moving the goal posts, maybe just slowly making them more clear haha.

    Left turn with a green light (not arrow) so when the coast is clear you may proceed and turn. It was pitch dark, wet roads (making my active headlights useless for illuminating the road ahead), not a lot of street lamps, I'm sure you've encountered this and wouldn't you agree the only way you're gonna see an oncoming car is because of their headlights?

    I see a bunch of lamps off in the distance and say "okay, I have plenty of time to safely make this turn, let's go." As I'm half-way through my turn I happened to look toward the oncoming cars and caught a tiny glint from the reflectors in their headlights (which were off). Dark colored car, no lights, twice as close as the next lit car, this could have been a t-bone (or damn close enough to one haha.)

    Running lights in the day time have never given me the trouble you describe, but I see where you're coming from.

    That's a romantic thought but not when you realize their death could mean an innocent person's death too.
     
    RomanS likes this.

  10. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Doctor of Teleocity

    Apr 28, 2003
    Nashville, TN
    Do you not realize that you don't get to make this decision for other people?

    That's the point that most in this thread are trying to get across to you. You don't get to tell other people what the primary purpose is for their own private vehicle. If he drives his work truck 30 minutes, twice a day... but he works out of it with the generator running for 7 hours a day... then what is the primary function of that truck for him? See... that's his decision, not yours.
     
    Steve Holt likes this.

  11. Steve Holt

    Steve Holt Tele-Holic

    728
    May 29, 2016
    Kansas
    Let's see what the original argument was

    "Present your best argument for having an on/off switch for the headlights on your car, I haven't heard any that satisfy me."

    So we just have to tell you why cars need to have the ability to be able to turn the headlights off, rather than run them on at all times. It seems like every valid argument to this has been met with something along the lines of:

    But you didn't ask about that, you asked about the need for an off switch for the lights even going as far as to say

    Engine running = lights on. Not driving because that's what most people do with their cars. So here are two examples. My first apartment in college was three stories with the lowest unit built halfway into the ground. So the big windows next to the parking lot were at perfect headlight level. Someone rolls in, and their headlights are shining straight into that persons home with about 3 feet of space between the headlights and the window of the apartment. It was common courtesy to turn off your lights if you knew you'd be sitting there for more than a few moments, because it would be rude not to turn them off. Another example. Football tailgate and the weather is 0 degrees. Someone in your party wants to warm up so they get back in the car, turn it on and crank the heat. Do the lights need to be on for this shining in someone's face sitting in a lawn chair at headlight level 20 feet away? No they do not. These are both silly minor reasons, but you asked for reasons to turn off the lights. There they are. And then you moved the goal posts

    Here's the thing though, no one can beat your argument if you're the one judging arguments and deciding who wins. Headlights are good. I get frustrated when driving in inclement weather and see people without them, that is dangerous. But that wasn't the question you posed. And that doesn't negate the need for a simple switch that can turn your lights off during the few times where having your lights on is silly. Or the fact that headlights burn out and don't need to be on when it's 90 degrees at 11 am in July on a sunny day. My last car had auto headlights that would come on when it got dark. But it had a hard time if you were driving from daylight to dark, it wouldn't turn them on fast enough for my liking and I'd usually have to turn them on myself. However my current car is great and turns on the lights in cloudy weather, and when it gets dark. I check for the headlight display on my dashboard often and never have to turn it on. So in closing I'm on your side with headlights and I think a good drive should be cognizant of their headlights at all times, but that I don't believe they have to be on all the time, and I don't believe car makers should make it impossible to turn off the lights when the vehicle is ON.
     
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  12. aerhed

    aerhed Tele-Holic

    Age:
    58
    564
    Dec 24, 2016
    Boulder, WY
    Can't vote the poll because the answers are stupid. Maybe I'll start a poll about stupid polls.
     

  13. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Doctor of Teleocity

    Apr 28, 2003
    Nashville, TN
    Am I the only one who dislikes stupid polls?
     
    RLee77 and Mike Simpson like this.

  14. Sconnie

    Sconnie Tele-Holic

    Age:
    25
    521
    May 1, 2017
    Denver, CO
    Couldn't said person still do that with running lights? I'm not making a decision for how people use their vehicle, just a design feature to make it as safe as possible since it's a vehicle. What I'm trying to say is that some always-on lights doesn't detract anything from the versatility of use for any particular vehicle. I don't wanna get bogged down in the generator example, but to me all these things people have listed are either a minor inconvenience occupying a minuscule fraction of the time spent using their car, or something that your vehicle isn't even the most economical or reasonable choice for completing some task (generator.) We have to find alternative solutions for things all the time, this is no different IMO.

    We've reached the obvious impasse of "smart people need the versatility and we trust them to use everything in the safest, most efficient, and useful way, but dumb people are also allowed to have them and can potentially put people at risk from their negligence."

    What's more, there are no rights being infringed upon anywhere here, it's not a slippery slope, and everyone seems to be conflating my perspective with an assault on their sovereignty.

    A decision can easily be made either way with no real legal red tape to navigate. This sort of thing happens all the time, like seat belt laws (which I find silly). That only affects the end user in any situation, and yet you've been legislated to wear one whenever driving. Headlights affect other's safety, so it's different. Heck, all the manufacturers could get together and say "hey, lots of dummys driving without theirs lights on and causing accidents, let's be altruistic and make full-time running low-beams across the board." These people have made the decision for you and you won't get anywhere trying to refute that. You'll still buy the truck and use it how you please.

    On the other side of the decision coin is that the switch gives other people the ability to make a decision concerning the safety of you and your family, and I simply don't trust anyone with that. It's all about priorities, I for one would forgo the decision making power regarding my headlights.

    Gotta pick your battles in society, I suppose :) This has been a nice debate though, minds likely didn't change but it was a good technical exercise, cheers for that!
     
    RomanS likes this.

  15. Sconnie

    Sconnie Tele-Holic

    Age:
    25
    521
    May 1, 2017
    Denver, CO
    Yes it is, maybe you should, and no you're not. Last second addition for a good dose of sarcasm in an attempt to keep the mood light, it didn't work... One guy got REAL mad at me about that one hahaha.
     

  16. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

    313
    Aug 6, 2016
    Tucson, AZ
    Yes, and then make it law to boot ... :)
     

  17. Sconnie

    Sconnie Tele-Holic

    Age:
    25
    521
    May 1, 2017
    Denver, CO
    Yes my wording wasn't perfect but I hoped folks could understand I wanted to hear about something more important than the safety of the vehicle when it's in motion. As I've said a lot, nothing takes precedent over the thing being a safe vehicle, at least for me. Don't want your lights to shine in a bedroom? Park somewhere else. Cold at the football game? Bring coffee, blankets, hand warmers, or park your car pointed the other way. I'd rather deal with all of that for my whole life if I never had to worry about some hack endangering my life from their negligence.

    I think we all know I'm not deciding anything regarding a winner, we're all judging and deciding winners, and anyway it's a guitar forum haha.
     

  18. aerhed

    aerhed Tele-Holic

    Age:
    58
    564
    Dec 24, 2016
    Boulder, WY
    A dark environment being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to douse their lights shall not be infringed (note the comma).
     

  19. TheGoodTexan

    TheGoodTexan Doctor of Teleocity

    Apr 28, 2003
    Nashville, TN
    Liberty. Not sovereignty.

    And serious question here... why do you think all of the car manufacturers have not got together and done that?

    So you're exercising your own personal decision making process... interesting.
     

  20. Steve Holt

    Steve Holt Tele-Holic

    728
    May 29, 2016
    Kansas
    At the risk of being repetitive there are those two quotes again. Is that like Nice try you lose, or Nice try play again? ;)
     

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