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hum with volume up

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by duffer426, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    63
    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    Just finished first 5f1 build did start up per robs web site. Every thing is ok except for hum when volume turned up all the way(12) is this normal,or is something out of wack inside amp, maybe loose wire or bad solder joint.
     

  2. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Tele-Holic

    837
    Apr 30, 2016
    Crawfordville, FL
    You mean, it goes up unproportional to signal, like at the very end of the volume control?
     

  3. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
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    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    well at 12 it is loud at half volume there is a faint hum or buzz but i can turn th volume up or down on my guitars, and it goes away
     

  4. D'tar

    D'tar Tele-Afflicted

    Jan 11, 2013
    WNY
    Same without guitar and cable plugged in?
     
    Wally likes this.

  5. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Asses the amp’s noise level with nothing plugged in. I think you are hearing guitar produced noise.
     

  6. kleydejong

    kleydejong Tele-Holic

    585
    Aug 30, 2010
    Orange City, IA
    With the volume up full I have found it to be normal to experience some noise. I also really like single coil pickups that are vintage wound and prone to be noisy. I find it to be a part of the gig with electric guitars and tube amps.

    Hard to tell for sure what you're experiencing as to whether or not that is 'normal' or not. Assuming it is not normal there are some things you can check:

    - Does your power transformer have a center tap on the 6.3v heater circuit? If not you can create an artificial center tap.
    - Are your heaters twisted and away from signal carrying wires? More information here where it says layout / lead dress - http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/heater.html.
    - You can check for a poor solder joint by visual inspection or by 'chopsticking'. Take a literal chopstick or similarly nonconductive instrument and start poking around in the amp while it is on. Start at the input and work through every connection. You may find a point where the amp audibly crackles or has intermittent connection. Resolder.
    - Check your lead dress. This refers to the position of the wires inside the amp. Again, start at the input and follow through the preamp. I often find that lengthy wires early in the circuit can cause problems. Moving them a few inches can make a difference. Specifically thinking about wires that run from the input jack to the preamp tube or from the preamp tube to the tone stack.
     
    JuneauMike likes this.

  7. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
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    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    with no guitar plugged in it is silent just a tiny amount of buzz.
     
    Wally likes this.

  8. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Tele-Afflicted

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    I'd suggest you post a couple of gut shots of the amp, one specifically showing your tube socket wiring and another showing your input wiring. I'd shoot a third pic of the power section (around the transformer area.) That would help folks discuss lead dress.

    Also, as posts #2, #4, #5 implied, try the amp in different configurations and report what you find. Amp dimed, no guitar plugged in; amp dimed, guitar plugged in, guitar volume low/guitar volume high; amp at 50%, guitar plugged, etc. You get the idea.

    Just for the fun of it, you might also go to YouTube and seek out UncleDoug's excellent video on 60hz vs. 120hz noise. That might help you in describing things. When I am talking about this stuff I often incorrectly use hum and buzz as synonyms but they are different things.

    Overall, based on post #7 it sounds like you are fine. I've never owned an authentic 5F1 tweed, but I've read that they do have some floor noise, like it or not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

  9. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
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    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    thanks for all the replies fellows, as far as pics go I don`t own a digital camera but I have an iphone 6 but whenever I plug it in to my computer, Itunes pops up on screen and I have no idea how to put pics on computer thru itunes.
     

  10. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Tele-Afflicted

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    Hmm, ok. When I plug my Iphone into my computer it asks if I want to have access to music and pics. But failing that, maybe consider emailing the pics to yourself.
     

  11. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    63
    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    I wonder since there is no noise with no guitar plugged in, that the problem is between the instrument jack and volume/on off switch
     
    awasson likes this.

  12. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    63
    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    Does anyone else have a 5f1 when volume is on 12 there is noise when guitar plugged in?
     

  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    When Gain is pushed...volume increased....there is an increase in the amount of noise that is created. This is natural. I know of no amplifier that does not create this type of noise when Gain is pushed. When I turn a Champ or any other amp up....and I always have an amp turned up to some appreciable setting on that dial, I expect some noise.
    Duffer, you say that with nothin golugged into the amps there is a “tiny amount of buzz”.
    For me, buzz indicates a ratcheting type of noise. Hum is a different thing....smooth constant frequency. So...
    What type of noise is this? Are your hands on the strings of the guitar? What kind of pickups.
    Single coil pickups naturally create a hum.
    If one’s hands are not in contact with the strings, bridge or some other ground point on the guitar, there is another type of noice that is created that is a bit different from the single coil,hum.
    Anytime one increase’s the volume setting on the amp, these types of noises become more prom8nent...naturally.

    When the guitar is plugged in, make and break contact with the strings or any other ground point on the guitar. Take note of the change in the mount of noise when that contact is made and then broken.
    Then, while maintaining that ground contact. Turn the volume on the instrument to minimum....what happens?

    All of this does not address the possibility of something in the environment that creates noise that the amp is then amplifying.
     

  14. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    63
    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    it is the same with a strat , tele, or a les paul. no matter where I put my hands on strings or on bridge. I am not sure whether it is a buzz or a hum as this is my first build and am not sure of the difference. Maybe its a normal thing for these type amps, and i’am just paranoid
     

  15. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Hence my questions. Hum or buzz? Hum a note...that is a hum. 120 cycle hum from the wall is very close to a Bb on the 1st fret, 5th string on a guitar. Buzz??? for me, a buzz is not as smooth as a hum......there is a 'racheting' quality to the sound along with whatever frequency is being heard.
    How about some history of amps you have owned and any perceived noise...or the lack thereof?
    How many amps have you 'dimed'....or 'twelved' in this case? Those amps have to generate more noise when 'dimed' than when at lower settings...nature of the beast. Is this noise there at lower volume settings and you simply are not taking note of it???
     

  16. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    63
    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    I have owned a blues jr and currently own a hot rod deluxe. I dont recall if i ever cranked the blues jr because at 15 watts it was plenty loud at half volume. I know I have never had the HRD up full volume, maybe I should crank it see how much noise I get
     
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  17. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
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    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    no the noise is not there at lower settings or at least not as loud
     

  18. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Tele-Afflicted

    May 5, 2015
    Alaska
    This is a really helpful and patient group of folks here, but I'm sure they have their limits. You gotta meet us half-way.

    It's 2 days later and you still can't identify the type of noise, can't distinguish between "hum" and "buzz" and don't have any pics uploaded or anything really substantial that folks can sink their teeth into. And so we're forced to play 20 Questions and fire blindly in the dark.

    This is the Uncle Doug video I suggested the other day (based on your responses yesterday and today, I suspect you haven't viewed it yet). After viewing it, would you characterize the noise as a hum or a buzz? Is it 60hz, or 120hz.



    Also consider googling some instruction on how to upload iPhone pics to a computer so you can send folks some gut shots and they can assess whether you've got lead dress problems or something else.

    And finally, post #6 suggested you "chopstick" the amp while its powered up. What did that reveal?

    To your question in post #12, that has been answered in the countless 5F1 build threads and elsewhere. I would suggest you get familiar with the advanced search feature of TDPRI. I usually go to the folder I think the answer would be found in (in this case "Shock Brothers," and use my search terms such as "5F1" and "hum" "noise" "buzz" "lead dress" etc.).

    I apologize in advance if I come off rude here, but it's very difficult to diagnose problems in this way. I know this because I've done exactly what you are doing now, and someone finally helped set me straight.

    If you spend some time on this site you will get more adept at speaking the language, and your computer skills will advance to the point that you can communicate effectively with supporting media to further help you along. When you do that, you'll find that these fine folks will bend over backwards to help you out. But they do need your help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
    Wally likes this.

  19. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    IT is either there at a lower volume...or it is not there. I am going to take it for granted that the noise is there......it would be extremely odd if it were not.
     

  20. duffer426

    duffer426 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    63
    25
    Jun 3, 2016
    In.
    just plugged guitar in HRD turn volume to 12 with no noise
     

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