Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups darrenriley.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

How to swing.

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by johnny k, May 16, 2018.

  1. johnny k

    johnny k Friend of Leo's

    Jan 15, 2011
    France
    Does anyone has a few online exercices to learn how to swing ? I m trying to learn a bit of western swing and i ve got a hard time keeping with the shuffle, like a long note then a quick one rather than equal length notes. Thanks for the input.
     
    Hiker likes this.

  2. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

    Apr 4, 2009
    Western Canada
    If's mostly about feel, as songs can have varying degrees of swing/shuffle applied. Getting the right hand in motion and keeping it in motion vastly improves the feel...

    The basic concept is a triplet with the 2nd duration left out and/or the 1st duration holding over the 2nd duration
    This is a nice little startup to watch.... if you actually view it on You Tube you can follow the rabbit hole of further suggested videos.

     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    P Thought and johnny k like this.

  3. Leon Grizzard

    Leon Grizzard Friend of Leo's

    Mar 8, 2006
    Austin, Texas
    The short answer is no, I don't. Just listen and internalize it. And it is not all that pronounced, especially the faster the tempo. Milk Cow Blues has noticeable swing but check out Roly Poly. Pretty subtle.

     
    GuitOp81 and klasaine like this.

  4. Leon Grizzard

    Leon Grizzard Friend of Leo's

    Mar 8, 2006
    Austin, Texas
    Stacy Phillips, in Western Swing Fiddle, says: “Unless otherwise stated assume that [sic] are played as “swing eighths“; i.e., not evenly. The timing falls between [here he illustrates even eighth notes and dotted 8th -16th notes and says they are notated as triplets with the first two notes tied]

    ...all fiddlers feel their eighths differently and straight eighths are occasionally thrown in to keep the rhythmic pot boiling. Some swing sweetly, others hard, and still others hardly – distinctions best made by your ears.

    Swinging also has a lot to do with syncopation, the manipulation of the timing of notes to produce unexpected accents and rests against a steady rhythmic background. Key notes are often misplaced by a couple of beats, or a fraction thereof. This contributes to a general looseness of timing among the best players. Sometimes they are a grace note ahead or behind the pulse without sounding rushed or losing the beat.”
     
    GuitOp81, screamin eagle and johnny k like this.

  5. johnny k

    johnny k Friend of Leo's

    Jan 15, 2011
    France
    Well even if it s not that pronounced, I at least want to have a regularity in my right hand motion so that it doesn t sound too sloppy. I ll try to ear pick that one thanks Leon. You re very helpful when it comes to that particular style of music, and advice on the internet are not that common.
     

  6. johnny k

    johnny k Friend of Leo's

    Jan 15, 2011
    France
    Thanks, i ll have a look at that one.
     

  7. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 28, 2006
    NELA, Ca
    +1 to Leon's posts.

    This may help ...
    Think of 'swing' 1/8 notes as 3 (1/8 note) triplets with the middle one missing. Many jazzers keep that in their head all the time, especially at slow to medium tempos.

    shuffle-markings.jpg
     
    Hiker and johnny k like this.

  8. Preacher

    Preacher Friend of Leo's

    Apr 17, 2007
    Big D
    Man I sure wish there was an option to add a post just from reading the topic line... this thread would have gone all over the place.
     
    johnny k likes this.

  9. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    Where do you put your pulse:

    1 2 3 4

    1 2 3 4

    1 2 3 4


    Also try to vary your dynamics, not just the time you're sustaining a beat. Play louder and softer with those beats.

    Get your hands on some of the Tiffany Transcriptions. Try to ride along with the band.

    Get your hands on some Hot Club of Cowtown.

    If you're really just getting started, you may want to check out Ray Benson's Hot Licks video on Western Swing.



    Someone told this to me once and it helped early on:

    Think of musical timing/beats as a BOX. In the very center is the exact millisecond of exact time. You can lean slightly away from center and still be 'inside' the box-thus still being 'on/in time'. However, that slight leaning either in front of or behind the beat can make all the difference for giving the song a certain feel--either pushing and leaning forward, or a slight laziness to it.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    Hiker and johnny k like this.

  10. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    If you're just getting started with Western Swing, use caution when playing along with Eldon Shamblin. He's moving chords around and not necessarily employing substitutions. Some yes, but a lot is just creating motion or multiple measures of a static chord.

    Start by just copying the feel/pulse--don't try to mirror all the changes. Unless, of course, you're already fluent in those typical chords and their movements.
     
    johnny k likes this.

  11. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    Cotton Tail


    Rose Room


    I Can't Believe You're...


    Stay A Little Longer
     
    klasaine and johnny k like this.

  12. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Nov 5, 2006
    Iowa City, IA
    I got an LP and transcriptions of Charlie Parker when I was 18. I listened to that record over and over and over. I rarely use music as background music, but I just liked the feel so much that I had it playing in the apartment when my bandmates were out. I think his off-notes tended to be softer in loudness and tone. Just the right timing and balance. I believe that this is more of a feel issue than a division one.
     
    klasaine likes this.

  13. soundslikethis

    soundslikethis TDPRI Member

    Age:
    63
    12
    Mar 18, 2018
    Toronto Canada
    I think of it as just pushing the "and" forward. So straight time is "1-and-2-and-3-and-4" and swing time is "1--and2--and3--and4". Count in a bar or two in your head before you start to play and it should affect the rhythm of what follows.
     

  14. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    I'm pretty sure that's what at least 90% of posters do anyway.
     

  15. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    I don't think of either of those as swing. But I'm not very sophisticated about theory. But putting notes on the one of the 4 in a 4/4 seems just like straight time to me. Backbeat for the 2/4 emphasis?

    Swing is that APPROXIMATE triplet feel, with the middle triple missing, in my head.

    OP, to me the best thing is to find some simple songs that swing and play along with them obsessively until it is ingrained. Or just play in a band with a good bass player and drummer that swing - when you are IN it, it is easier to feel it, to me.
     

  16. johnny k

    johnny k Friend of Leo's

    Jan 15, 2011
    France
    I guess i ll just keep on trying until i get it down.
     

  17. johnny k

    johnny k Friend of Leo's

    Jan 15, 2011
    France
    i m practicing on those 2 solos.



    I can play them slower but what if find hard to reproduce are the real fast notes in the 0'40 to 0'45 licks, and the weird slides which i don t really expect.

    I have fun playing this though.
     

  18. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    I didn't actually say that placing your emphasis in those spots would be a swing feel. I simply showed an emphasis in counting on either the 1 and 3, 2 and 4 or no emphasis at all. I actually then went into describing leaning or laying back as to emphasize a swing feel. But it has to start with the pulse and the emphasis on either the 1 and 3, or 2 and 4.

    You're right in your assessment, but missed that I didn't really state that those counting examples are of swing feels.
     

  19. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    Spend some time practicing ghost notes.

    Also, that slide you're hearing is actually quite common (Grady Martin, Hank Garland, Jimmy Bryant).

    practice a hammer on, pull off slide back one:

    This is not the passage in the tune, just an example of something to practice to get comfortable with this type of lick/idea/device.

    Ex.1 (In E) (sd=slide down. su=slide up)
    ----5-h7p5-sd4-------------------------
    ------------------5--------5-----
    --------------------6--4---------
    -------------------------------
    -------------------------------
    -------------------------------

    Ex. 2 (In E)
    -5-h7p5---3su4----------------------
    ------------------5-------5------
    --------------------6--4---------
    -------------------------------
    -------------------------------
    -------------------------------

    Ex. 3 (In E) This one is great when moving to your V chord.
    --5-h7p5-su4---------------------------
    ---------------5----------------5sd4
    -----------------4--------4--6----
    ---------------------sd6----------
    -------------------------------
    -------------------------------
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
    johnny k likes this.

  20. johnny k

    johnny k Friend of Leo's

    Jan 15, 2011
    France
    thanks i ll try those licks.
     

IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.