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How flat is flat enough?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Scottz, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    This particular neck is a Warmoth with untouched SS6105 frets. The previous owner evidently didn't understand that these necks from the factory still sometimes need fretwork. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of material there to get it level. Sorry if I got a little heated in my response before.
     
    Wally likes this.

  2. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Here’s a clue for working the frets.....work with a straight edge on top of the frets. You are not trying to level the board but rather the frets. Why worry about the board, right? Use the truss rod adjustment to backbow the neck enough to get a high spot in the middle....hopefully that is not the 6th fret. Then, back the rod off until the straight edge sits on two or three points without rocking.....level and dress. I always want to make sure that the neck has some ‘fall away’ above the 12th fret.
     
    tery likes this.

  3. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    63
    Apr 11, 2016
    Las Vegas, NV
    @Scottz

    I did not mean to be a wise guy or offend, sorry if it came off as such. My point was that your description of frets #6 to #11 sounds like a classic example of relief, especially if the gap is a little more at the 8th fret or so. This is not ideal for leveling purposes. As alluded to by Wally, and an extrapolation on his comments, it would seem most advisable to get that area from the nut to the 12th fret, or so, as flat as possible and generally (for now at least) ignore/discount the fall away area above the 12th, that you can address after the main playing area is leveled! I personally don't start any fall away until the 17th or so, if at all. But that's just me and I don't shoot for insanely low action, for my own use anyway!

    Just My $.02,
    Gene
     

  4. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    I guess it wasn't so clear to everyone that the neck is as flat as it can be.
     

  5. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    My problem with understanding your statement is that what is going on there is that your neck/fretboard has a ‘valley’. I would describe that situation as a neck with a problem....the line of the neck is incorrect. I read your statement as describing a situation where the truss rod adjustment would not take the neck far enough to be straight.
    At any rate, those frets can be leveled; and the line of the neck can be corrected during a refret.
     

  6. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    There seems to be a minor hump at the 12-15 frets. I went through the level tonight, crowned and polished. It's better, but still a buzz through the amp on the 6th string at frets 10-12. After leveling it I carefully checked for rocker but found none. Action is at 2.4mm, a little higher than spec. Relief is pretty close to 0.010". I'll try playimg with the truss rod and see if I can improve it.
     

  7. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    So the only real fix is pull the frets, sand down the hump, recut fret slots and refret?
     

  8. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    63
    Apr 11, 2016
    Las Vegas, NV
    Doesn't Warmoth have a warranty?
    Just Askin'
    Gene
     

  9. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Meister

    252
    Aug 12, 2011
    Malmoe Sweden
    Well, hold on a bit... too scant information..

    1. Any radius of the neck? Is it COMPOUND radius, or 16" or 20" or lower radius?
    2. Truss rod adjustable?
    3. Type of frets? 6100 Dunlop, or 6500 or something else? Tall, low, fat, or narrow?
    4. How many frets does the neck have?
    5. If it's past 20, you should not have flat all the way, you should file a "drop off" or "fall away" after 18-20th fret, that either can be filed fretboard wise or in the frets provided the frets are very tall and you have something to take off from.
    6. The resulting relief from the truss rod, when tuned up, may not be sufficient enough, or perfect, for all strings. The low E oscillates more, and may touch frets and giving string buzz. So you must file "relief" into the frets for different strings, especially around the 12 th fret.

    Especially point 1 makes the most sense. So be careful. Regarding point 5...

    https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/fretboard-fall-away-explained/

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

  10. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    That hump is, ime and imho, a defect. From the 12th fret on up there should be a slight fall away. The best neck I have even worked on have this fallaway.
     
    telemnemonics likes this.

  11. tery

    tery Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Sep 21, 2012
    Tennessee
    _:)___________
     

  12. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    Warmoth compound radius. SS6105 frets, truss is adjustable, 22 frets
     

  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    If this neck is past any warranty...and the leveling might have voided that????, you can deal with a minor hump problem by taking off fret metal in the tongue area. If the hump is significant, you have to get the frets out of the way to take work off of the board. Maple board......you might have to resale the fret slots after removing the hump.
    Rosewood or other board......if the hump is severe and the board is not thick enough, there can be a problem in correcting the board. I remember a candy apple red ‘65 Strat that just barely had enough wood for the correction and the refret. I let the buyer know that when he bought it as that could be the last refret for that neck/board.
     

  14. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    Second hand so no warranty, plenty of fretboard material.

    15369338295255078191572866745102.jpg
     

  15. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    At some point it makes more sense to buy a new neck rather than dump too much money into this one.
     

  16. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    If you are going for a new neck, PM me.
     

  17. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    If I do, it might be a while. Need to save up. I'd prefer to put an American Standard neck back on it.
     

  18. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    58
    Mar 2, 2010
    Maine
    I’m not getting the sense that this neck is bad, if you leveled and crowned the frets ant they are not level I’d look for a setup problem.
    If you want low action I’d straighten the neck more and see if there’s an actual hump.
    .010 is IMO a lot of relief, better for cowboy chords than low action up the neck, but I prefer to have some relief under the wound strings and closer to dead straight under the plain strings for low action.

    It is possible to sand the frets with a beam and end up not level.
    Buzzing action is never really a mystery, it has a cause and if you cannot identify the cause there’s a fair chance you made some mistakes in the level and crown.
    Did you crown off all the leveling flats?
    Or leave the flats on all the frets?
    How did you polish?
    Maybe you made some low spots?

    Those frets are tall enough that you should have been able to get a dead level result.
     
    moosie likes this.

  19. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Age:
    61
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Don't fret (ha ha) the last few frets. It's fallaway, often there by design, and is generally a good thing. For the rest of it, it's good that you're taking care, but that's close enough. Things change as soon as it's strung up anyway. Not only the relief dialed in with the truss rod, but the compression of the string pull.
     

  20. Scottz

    Scottz Tele-Meister

    Age:
    49
    219
    May 18, 2018
    Littleton CO
    I know it's close., Better than it was. Im thinking of just taking it to one of the local guys and letting him finish dialing it in.
     

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