How Do You Date a Mid-to-late '60's Tele Body With No Neck?

Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by sgtsteiner, May 11, 2019.

  1. sgtsteiner

    sgtsteiner Tele-Meister

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    Hey All --

    Say you have what you think is a '68 Tele in oly white. Then say all you have is the body -- no neck or pots or neck plate to help you date it. How exactly would you be able to date what year the body is?

    Thanks all! Hoping the TDPRI brain trust can help me out here.

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  2. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Poster Extraordinaire

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    I suspect you CAN'T.....not with any accuracy or certainty.....:(
     
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  3. Ripradiant

    Ripradiant Tele-Afflicted

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    If the body is loaded then u should have enough clues to know. There is a very good telecaster book out there that will tell you a lot... I'm not at home so I can't get the author but I'm sure someone else will have that.
     
  4. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    No Neck Patrick - Copy.jpg

    How do you date a mid-to-late '60's Tele Body with no neck?

    Just ask politely to go have a cup of coffee, and see where it goes from there. :)
     
  5. sgtsteiner

    sgtsteiner Tele-Meister

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    She has a '59 slab board neck and the pots all say '66 -- which doesn't tell you much because Fender bought a million '66 pots that year and used them for many years afterwards.

    Any idea what the earliest use of the white undercoat would be? Was '68 the first year, or has it been seen even earlier than that?
     
  6. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    The body could be right. Many 60s bodies were Lucite acrylic paint straight on sanding sealer- Oly White was one such and it often had a nitro topcoat except very early 60s. The acrylic looks stark white.

    It looks pre-73shape in routes. The ceramic cap on the control plate looks right. Need some better shots of the wiring route including cavity shot. Not saying it's legit but no showstoppers from these.
     
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  7. toomuchfun

    toomuchfun Tele-Holic

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    Not a lot of help, but I owned a '68 and have a few pics. You don't show the neck pocket, one of mine does.

    68-standard-pocket.jpg
    68_OLYMPIC_WHT_TELE.jpg


    Look familiar?

    I always thought this was olympic white. The person who bought it has many connections with buyers/collectors and he told me if you can see any grain, which I never felt I saw, it's blond and not olympic white. He declared this one is blond, and was a little p.o'd because he bought it as olympic white.

    Btw the pick guard and bridge plate are not original.
     
  8. sgtsteiner

    sgtsteiner Tele-Meister

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    Yes, the neck pocket is somehow the only thing I don't have pics of. I hate the idea of having to take the neck off as I just had her set up by my friend Bill Asher and she plays like a dream. But perhaps this holds the only clue left?

    Let me ask you all -- is there any reason this couldn't be an earlier '60's body? I've been assuming it's a '68 all this time, but perhaps she's even earlier? Three clues -- the slab board neck, the neck plate dates to '61, the bridge is a top-loader which Fender was still getting rid of as late as '62 -- so it could be '61 as well.

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  9. 2 Headed Goat

    2 Headed Goat Tele-Afflicted

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    Are the body string ferrules flush or do they protrude? Not sure what year they changed to the latter tho my '66 had flush ones as do earlier years.

    Just took another look at the photo and they look flush to my eyes. Its possible that the body is an earlier one tho I'd say only by a couple of years... ie 1966.
     
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  10. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    Your guitar being lacquer finished (just based on the pix you posted) and having flush ferrules does make it more likely to be a pre '68. What wiring does it have, and is the wiring original?

    That is not a white undercoat (i.e. primer). It's the acrylic lacquer color coats, for Oly White, IMO. The clear was nitro, though (as you can see by the yellowing, checking, and more pronounced rub-off vs. the more technically advanced and durable acrylic color coats). When Oly White was clear coated (which it usually was except for sometimes early in the '60s), this is how it was done: Lucite (i.e. acrylic) color coats, with Duco (i.e. nitro) clear coats. Fender did not use acrylic clear back then.

    If pots are original, I say you have a '66 or '67 Tele body there.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  11. sgtsteiner

    sgtsteiner Tele-Meister

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    Here are the ferrules. Are they protruding? Below that is the only clear shot I have of the electronics. No idea if they're original. I believe the pots date to '66? One is definitely a replacement CTS -- I believe the volume pot.

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  12. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    I believe I see grain. And I also see none of the telltale worn Oly White look: very bright and mostly intact color coats, with very yellowed and more significantly rubbed off clear coats.
     
  13. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    That better angle changes my response. Those are definitely not flush ferrules. Your guitar is '68 or later. Possibly still lacquer, though, as Oly White lacquer was there in the factory all through the '70s.

    Your electronics would have "modern" wiring if they are original to the body...but them having modern wiring does not mean that they are original to the body...if that makes any sense.

    Your finish looks just like my '76 Musicmaster Bass's finish, which is acrylic Oly White color coats with nitro clear coats, all over Fullerplast (combination grain filler and sealer coat).
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  14. sgtsteiner

    sgtsteiner Tele-Meister

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    @EsquireOK - If the body is '68 or later what will I find in the neck pocket? Will it have the heavy black stamps as pictured by toomuchfun above? And what if it doesn't? Will that mean something different?
     
  15. jonnyfez

    jonnyfez Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I don't see grain. I see checking.
     
  16. 2 Headed Goat

    2 Headed Goat Tele-Afflicted

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    Yeah, those ferrules aren't flush. Can't help ya re what should be stamped in the neck pocket. Perhaps someone with The Telecaster Book can chime in.
     
  17. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    I just don't know about the neck pocket.
     
  18. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Really all you can do is determine that it was made before one change but after another change, like the toploader/ five screw guard/ lost diagonal rout/ bass side cutaway etc.
    Here the ferrules and diag rout narrow down the years an original could be.

    With paint on the body there's almost no hard and fast way to even be sure it's not a repro, given that there is a huge talented industry making fakes.

    But at the same time, you know it is a partscaster, and a circa late '60s body with no provenance isn't worth a huge amount more money than a MJT relic body.
    Might be a $500 difference in the overall value.

    If the body seemed clearly loaded with all original parts it would be worth more, but once a body is separated from neck and hardware, the value plummets.
    Oddly though, it might almost be worth more with the finish stripped, because then you could see more evidence of vintage Fender manufacturing methods.
    An in hand inspection by somebody like Gruhn might get you a letter stating that the finish is vintage original, or it might not. We can't do that from pics AFAIK.

    Given that the guitar was photographed without any pics of the neck pocket, I'd guess that it holds no definitive evidence that a tech or the previous owner would have pointed out to you. Could hold helpful evidence, but might not be $500 worth of rubber stamp.

    All these questions are why an all original is worth so much more than a partscaster.
    Once uncertainty sets in, it's hard to put a dollar value on old used parts.

    All my Fenders are partscatsers made from '50s/ '60s/ '70s parts, and bodies are hardest to nail down production dates while also lowest value for how large a portion of the guitar they are.

    I can't see anything in the pics that tells me it's vintage or that tells me it's a repro.

    What I would be more swayed by (unless in hand inspection reveals more) is the provenance.
    How long did the seller own it?
    Who did the seller buy it from and what is their story?
    What is the oldest known repro body shop in your area if the guitar was owned locally for over a decade?
    I'm not sure how long really good relic repro bodies have been on the market but it's gotta be 20 years.
    Longer than 20 years ago there were ads for parts in Vintage Guitar mag that stated "can't be told from original". Around that time it got really hard to buy vintage Fenders, plus the price difference between all original and questionable grew wider and wider.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Anybody think those ferrules look awfully perfectly aligned for a circa '68?
    I'm not sure but it seems like they would typically be a little more crooked?
    I forget now, just asking for those who have a late '60s Tele body in house.
     
  20. fendrguitplayr

    fendrguitplayr Poster Extraordinaire

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