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Help with Jensen C10 Variations

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by guitarjesus, Feb 15, 2018.

  1. guitarjesus

    guitarjesus TDPRI Member

    Age:
    39
    57
    Jan 11, 2017
    92584
    So many damned variations of this speaker. Is there info out there on this? Maybe someone can help me fill in the blanks?

    C10M -
    C10N - 50 watts
    C10NM - closed back 16 ohm
    C10NS - 8 ohm,
    C10P - 35-40 watts, 4 or 8 ohm
    C10PF -
    C10Q - 35 watts, 8 or 16 ohm, 15oz ceramic mag
    C10R - 25 watts, 8 ohm, 10oz ceramic mag
    C10RL -
    C10RS - built in transformer

    All help is appreciated!
     
  2. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Age:
    61
    Jan 6, 2011
    NC
    Never heard of a C10M
    The original C10N was a 25 watt speaker until late 1965. It was then rated 40 watts. It has a 1.5" voice coil.
    The C10NS is a Smaller magnet version of the C10N; which theoretically make it a C10P, which was originally a 20 watt speaker, with a 1.5" voice coil, until late 1965. It was then rated at 35 watts. Any Jensen speaker bearing the "F" or "L" designation was used for stereo use, mostly as a woofer, and have different cones than a musical instrument speaker. The "F" was the Flexaire cone with a pleated, often orange colored surround. The "L" was a heavier paper cone designed for low frequency.
    The original C10Q had a 1.25" voice coil and was rated 15 watts until late 1965 when it was upped to 30 watts.
    The original C10R had a 1" voice coil and was rated 12 watts until late 1965 when it was upped to 20 watts.

    The use of fiberglass voice coil formers, over the earlier paper formers, allowed the wattages to be increased due to the ability of fiberglass to dissipate more heat; wattage = heat. The higher wattage models were made during the labeled "The Muter Company" years. The labels show: "Jensen Mfg. Co", "Division of The Muter Co" and "Made Especially For Musical Instrument Reproduction."
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
    Wally likes this.
  3. guitarjesus

    guitarjesus TDPRI Member

    Age:
    39
    57
    Jan 11, 2017
    92584
    Wait, so the C10R speakers that came in the original Super Reverbs were only 12 watts?
     
  4. ampking300

    ampking300 TDPRI Member

    Jensen C10M were 50 watt speakers made from 1970 to 1972, rare birds, with I believe 1.5" voice coils and same size magnets as the Jensen LMI-102/105, bass/guitar speakers respectively, which were 100 watters with 2" voice coils.
     
  5. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Age:
    61
    Jan 6, 2011
    NC
    Yes. This version had paper voice coil formers. They only used C10R's in 1963 and very early 1964 in the Super Reverb.
     
    Wally likes this.
  6. guitarjesus

    guitarjesus TDPRI Member

    Age:
    39
    57
    Jan 11, 2017
    92584
    I got a 65 project chassis i want to build but think I may give up and sell it and just buy a whole amp.

    Funny, CTS Alnicos are the "holy grail" of Super Reverbs, but they didn't start using them until what, 1966 or 1967. There goes that Pre-CBS myth out the window again.
     
  7. slider313

    slider313 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Age:
    61
    Jan 6, 2011
    NC
    I pulled up a couple of pics of the C10M and they look to be made on different frames. I believe Jensen was running into production problems, around 1970, and some of their speakers were being built by Rola. They were both, Jensen and Rola, owned by The Muter Co. I believe that C10M was Rola built.

    [​IMG]
     
    Wally likes this.
  8. schmee

    schmee Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2003
    northwest
    Many of the speakers sound great in Supers. I'm not convinced my faves are the CTS alnicos. I like the Oxfords a a lot and the CTS ceramics too. My 66 had the alnicos and they were nice once I had them reconed to spec. Some had Jensen C10Q's and I played one in a back line with those that was great. The Weber CTS clone is the bees knees (CTC or CVC 10) But way too expensive for what they are. Cheap little speakers. One of the few out there still made with paper voice coil formers though.

    That Jensen C10M appears to be a cast frame speaker.
     
  9. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    66
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Power handling did change on some speakers over the years - and new so-called "reissues" may or may not fall in the same categories as the originals.

    Also - when dealing with vintage speakers do not use them on the basis of the original power handling if they're (generally) over 30 or 40 years old. The late speaker Guru Ted Weber cautioned that older speakers lost 1/3 or more of their power handling due to age - whether they've been used or stored (and may have lost more if stored in dry or humid conditions).

    Cones dry out (or swell/warp), glues become brittle (or creep), seams weaken, spiders become weak (some fabric types rot) and so on. With speakers over 30-35 years old, if they appear to be "ok" structurally I don't go beyond 50% of the original power handling. I base this on the number of vintage speakers I've sent out for recones when doing amp work and for me it seems to be the "line in the sand".

    And in some amps, like Fender tweeds, I often recommend removing/storing the originals unless they've already blown/been reconed. Vintage Jensens can sound tremendous but once blown they're never quite what they were - and a vintage amp will lose value due to a recone.
     
  10. guitarjesus

    guitarjesus TDPRI Member

    Age:
    39
    57
    Jan 11, 2017
    92584
    Well I just scored a hell of a deal on a 1965 FEIC Super Reverb with reissue C10q speakers, talked the owner down because of the replacement speakers. We'll see how they sound. But I also bought a pair of 1965 C10r for $10 that need recones and was given a pair or Oxford 10L5 that need recones. So I'll get those done while breaking in my new amp and see how the reissues tickle my fancy sound.
     
  11. mad dog

    mad dog Friend of Leo's

    Jun 27, 2005
    Montclair, NJ
    Pre CBS and myth has nothing to do with it. The best Super Reverbs I've heard/played had CTS alnicos. For me, it's personal taste. No rap on Jensen ceramics either. Love them too, but not so much in the SR.
     
  12. guitarjesus

    guitarjesus TDPRI Member

    Age:
    39
    57
    Jan 11, 2017
    92584
    If I can find a set of CTS speakers I'll snag them but they ain't cheap...
     
  13. mad dog

    mad dog Friend of Leo's

    Jun 27, 2005
    Montclair, NJ
    Jeff: They're old and fragile too. Had to have one reconed in my old BFSR. It was so worth the effort. A buddy brought his SR over years ago. Had the CTS alnicos. We tried various combinations of ceramic and alnico in that amp. Several different ceramics, a Kendrick blackframe being one, which is much in the old Jensen C12N neighborhood. There were some good sounds to be had, but no ceramic/alnico combo sounded as balanced and just right to us as the all CTS alnico lineup.
     
  14. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
  15. guitarjesus

    guitarjesus TDPRI Member

    Age:
    39
    57
    Jan 11, 2017
    92584
    Oh for sure. I mean even the busted CTS speakers I've seen go for a decent amount. I'd just use Gordon the Speakerman for re-cones.

    Luckily they are a ton cheaper than pre-Rola Celestion Greenbacks, holy crap those cost as much as a late 60's or early 70's Super Lead!
     
  16. schmee

    schmee Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2003
    northwest
    CTS quad alnicos may go for about $300 on Ebay.
    BTW: Orange County Speaker used to do the absolute best on CTS etc Fender speakers. Accurate reproduction rebuild and fast. They quit reconing, but the guy who used to do it was doing them last I heard: http://www.speakerrepairpros.com/home.html
     
  17. vintagelove

    vintagelove Tele-Meister

    364
    Oct 18, 2014
    NY
    Quads of both CTs and c10r sound great.



    Xy of both, amazing.
     
  18. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

    Oct 9, 2008
    S. CA
    As far as I know, they shut down the shop, but the son now does the reconing. Not sure if he operates out of his house now or not, but he is suppose to be back in business. I'd imagine the quality to be similar to OC Speaker.
     
  19. guitarjesus

    guitarjesus TDPRI Member

    Age:
    39
    57
    Jan 11, 2017
    92584
    The website works, and it's not Orange County Speaker anymore, so I'm guessing it's it's operational. I grew up in Orange County. Used them a few times in the old days.
     
  20. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    66
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    The single best speaker I've ever heard in a Deluxe Reverb was an early-70's CTS *ceramic*. I wasn't the only one - there were a half-dozen or so players that day comparing BF & SF Deluxes and swapping speakers and tubes around.

    There is, however, a difference between Jensen speakers produced in Italy (by SICA Altoparlant) and the originals (produced by Jensen Manufacturing Company). They are simply not the same - the part numbers and general appearance are but "reissues" are new designs with different sound.
     
    mad dog likes this.
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