Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

HELP WITH DYING A GUITAR

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by Megadethking851, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    Ok thanks for the tips guys, i appreciate it. And when i apply water to it to test if it will get evenly distributed, how will i be able to tell, will the grain pop out a little bit and will it be noticible to tell. Im going to sand off all the glue.
     

  2. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    Also if when i decide to die it, the binding thats arounf the body should i tape that or will the die juat wipe right off of it. Ill be careful to not get it on it but im sure when wiping it in, some will get on it?
     

  3. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    Yes. You'll see it.

    No way to answer. It depends completely on the product you use. And the BEST way to know is to buy some binding and test it. you should always do a test if you don't know. Don't assume anybody's answer is right. Test test test.
     
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  4. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    Yup i will be doing some testing, just gunna buy some of the same wood. Just wanted some tips.
     

  5. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    When silverface says to sand the wood again after i dye and geain fill, will sanding it mess my color up though that i just put down. Or just do it lighly to get the filler off
     

  6. RodeoTex

    RodeoTex Poster Extraordinaire

    Sep 14, 2005
    Nueces Strip
    Dye is pretty permanent. I don't know about anything water - based.
    At least with sprayed - on tinted lacquer you can sand off back to the sanding sealer and try again.
     

  7. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    Ya im gunna try the wipe on kind this time. Ive seen people sand it off in a video , i guess ill just have to practice scrap and see. I know some will stay just domt wanna sand through it then the color geta faded to much.
     

  8. Speedy454

    Speedy454 Tele-Meister

    408
    Oct 1, 2013
    Highland, IL
    I'm pretty sure that what he meant when he said to sand after applying the dye, was to lightly sand with about a #320 grit to knock down the nubs that will probably appear. Water in contact with wood almost always "raises the grain", creating millions of whiskers or nubs.
    If you sand aggressively or with too coarse of sandpaper, you will cut through the dye and create an uneven finish and a bunch of sanding scratches.
    My best results were obtained from sanding the wood carefully to about #320 grit before applying anything. And ALWAYS sand in the direction of the grain. Cross grain sanding scratches will stand out like a sore thumb or worse with dye.
    If you are dead set on wiping on the dye, find a product that is water/alcohol soluble. I like Trans Tint myself. You can mix a diluted batch with literally a few drops of dye in a half pint of water.
    If you get in trouble, let it dry, then use denatured alcohol to scrub the dye off.
    The attempts I made diluting the Trans Tint dye with denatured alcohol did not turn out too well due to the extremely fast evaporation rate/drying of the alcohol. Water was a better and more controllable media for applying the dye, but the denatured alcohol worked very well to remove it.
    Latex gloves are a must. Any dye that will permanently tint wood will tint your bare skin or cloths for a long time.

    Go to a big box hardware store and buy a 2'X2' Handy Panel of maple plywood.
    Use that to experiment. It will teach you a lot for a low cost. Either cut it into sections or just use a 6"X6" section at a time.

    But for an amber finish that looks good and can be done in a garage or back yard, I still say what I said before.

    Reranch amber spray bomb and Reranch clear spray bomb.

    This is THE easiest way to get a uniform amber translucent finish.

    Living in AZ with zero humidity, that stuff should dry like a dream with zero risk of blushing unless you are extremely careless.
     

  9. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    Well how do u get a translucent finiah with spray paint. Itsnt it usually one solid color or is the amber just so light that u will see the natural wood underneath
     

  10. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    I know most of u guys say apply sanding sealer before anything. But if i do that wont the die not stick to it well.cause the sealer dries smooth. Dont u need the dye to peneyrate the wood in order for it to be dyed
     

  11. Frank'n'censed

    Frank'n'censed Poster Extraordinaire

    Mar 27, 2011
    Parts Unknown
    A proper soundtrack always helps

     

  12. Prophetsnake

    Prophetsnake TDPRI Member

    93
    Aug 2, 2016
    ireland
    To get the most out of your flame, I'd recommend that you stain the wood with amber dye thinned with alcohol. You'll need to do it several times over, maybe as many as a dozen times. You can get the dye from Stew Mac, or eBay, or wherever. The type of dye isn't too critical. It should be water or alcohol based, though.
    Let the dye soak into the grain and then wipe off the excess with alcohol, then sand, or better yet, scrape lightly between coats. When you have enough colour lodged into the grain, the flame should really pop for you. If you want a burst, concentrate on the edges, or you can mix the amber with a bit of something a bit darker.

    After all that, you might want to try a Tru-oil finish. Tru-oil is cheap, easy to apply, hard wearing and very pretty. Best of all, the feel is fantastic, completely unlike cellulose and much much better than urethane. Your neck will play like butter.

    I built the LP on my avatar from scratch and it's done in exactly this way. I've used the same procedure on several guitars. The flame is luminous, and the other woods all have a deep luster which is far more natural and attractive than cellulose IMO.
    If you have a beater guitar with a screw on neck, sand the old finish off and Tru-oil it. You'll be amazed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017

  13. Prophetsnake

    Prophetsnake TDPRI Member

    93
    Aug 2, 2016
    ireland

    A closeup of the same guitar. I think it only has a few coats of Tru-oil at this stage. I didn't use a sealer on this one, I let the Tru-oil do that, which took quite a few coats. But I have sealed other flamed instruments before the Tru-oil finish and there's no discernible difference.And yes, the dye goes on before the sealer if you go that route.
    The edges of the top of this guitar are filled with a bright red dye and there's amber over the rest. I think the Amber is Stew Mac and the red from a powder, but I built the body years ago and can't remember exactly
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
    fenderchamp likes this.

  14. Speedy454

    Speedy454 Tele-Meister

    408
    Oct 1, 2013
    Highland, IL
    The reranch amber is a translucent amber.
    They have several translucent colors in cans.

    There are many ways to get the finish you want.

    Consider your skill level and experience vs. many of those giving you advice here.

    From your responses, it seems like your skill level is very minimal.

    Re read this entire thread and then find the easiest method, and the one that you think you could accomplish with your skill, tools, work shop space and so on.

    Be prepared to make mistakes. Almost all of us have failed with a finish from time to time.

    I have used lacquer, poly, Tru Oil, water based finishes, oil finishes and shellac. Each has it's own pros and cons.
    None will give you a mirror finish without lots of prep, a perfect surface, a very dust free environment and most important,


    Practice and patience.
     
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  15. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    With some bodies simply using dye and then Tru-oil will not give the results he's looking for. Some absolutely need sanding sealer and paste wood filler to both "pop" the grain and get a smooth finish - almost always to get the latter. Without sealer and filler everything soaks into the soft grain & dye provides NO film thickness; the only film-former is Tru Oil, which will be soaking into the grain.

    IF the soft grain is fairly hard one may get a smooth, glossy finish - but if the grain is soft it can't happen. The soft grain will have a lower gloss and less film thickness.


    It usually works best on bodies with thin maple veneer as there is adhesive under the the maple. This may prevent penetration. But with a standard maple top (like a Les Paul, PRS etc) it's a crapshoot - and there's no way to test the system on a practice piece to work out the kinks and know what to expect.
     

  16. Prophetsnake

    Prophetsnake TDPRI Member

    93
    Aug 2, 2016
    ireland
    I used it on that LP with no sanding sealer, and it's not veneered. It did take quite a few coats just to seal the top, though. I think i used sealer on every other guitar I finished with Tru oil, though.
    Oils are becoming pretty much the only way to go in Europe. Nitrocellulose is completely gone now, and I'd sooner use a guitar for firewood than put polyurethane on it.
     

  17. Prophetsnake

    Prophetsnake TDPRI Member

    93
    Aug 2, 2016
    ireland
    Also, get a scraper and learn to sharpen and use it. It will give you a much better finish than sandpaper.
     

  18. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    Ok thanks guys. I appreciate all the help and when im putting in my tuner knobs should i drill into the head or since its such a small screw i can just screw it in with out cracking the maple head ?
     

  19. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Mar 2, 2003
    Lawndale CA
    I missed this - sorry!

    If water-based products will be used directly on the wood the grain should always be raised with water FIRST - then sanded smooth when dry. It prevents fouling up the dyes, stains and other water based materials.

    You use transparent ones!

    "Bulk" products - gallons of lacquer - can be mixed, then a portion poured off and lightly tinted to a transparent "toner" using universal colorants or specific types of dyes.

    Mohawk sells dozens of semi-transparent toners in various colors. Reranch also sells "amber" toner for aging effects.

    If you look up "semi transparent lacquer toners" you'll find plenty of info. However, there's more to applying them than just spraying them on a surface. Sealers, filler and usually stain or dye are used first and clears afterwards.

    NONONO!

    NEVER put a screw into wood without drilling. ANY wood. And always drill to *at least* the diameter of the screw's shaft - no smaller. The only wood displacement should be by the threads themselves. If you don't drill or drill smaller you may crack the wood - then you may be...screwed.o_O
     

  20. Megadethking851

    Megadethking851 TDPRI Member

    Age:
    24
    45
    Sep 18, 2017
    Glendale, az
    Ok thanks guys i appreciate the tips. One more question and i should be good. So when im raising the grain on maple. I will have to sand against the grain right so it doesnt fill the pores back up right. And should i use scotch brite or 220 sand paper?
     

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