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Help me out with some tech and earn yourself a virtual beer and a high 5!

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Hokkaidojan, Sep 16, 2018.

  1. Hokkaidojan

    Hokkaidojan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    10
    Sep 16, 2018
    Japan
    Hi there.
    I recently acquired a 1976 Fernandes lawsuit telecaster.
    My first venture into Tele type guitars.

    I have some questions about the tech.

    Looking at the wiring setup (all untouched since the 70s) I am confused by the lack of any ground to body wire??? And also the electronics confuse me as it has 2 capacitors. One on the vol pot and one on the tone pot.

    Could anyone try to explain (in as close to layman’s terms as poss) the wiring of this Tele. Here is some pics:
    F9EA2AC2-6D68-43D1-9BB6-8A7AA2D70E7C.jpeg
    688F1350-A53D-433C-87BC-25A51E735DB6.jpeg 95893343-A5D6-403E-B24D-9952ADD05017.jpeg

    Also, the person I received this off gave me an orange capacitor 0.02uf and said it would sound great in this guitar. What exactly would it do tone wise compare with what’s in there already, and if I were to use it, witch of the 2 original caps should it replace? Here is the said cap:

    3A045624-D1F6-4374-83A2-77BE49B76F4A.jpeg

    Thanks in advance for any help and explanations you smart people!

    HokkaidoJan.
     
  2. Hokkaidojan

    Hokkaidojan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    10
    Sep 16, 2018
    Japan
    I should add, the guitar sounds great.
    No humming or apparent grounding issues.
    It’s a very treble focus twangy sound. Especially from the bridge pickup.
     
  3. Tony474

    Tony474 Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    71
    Apr 16, 2007
    North Bushey, England.
    Welcome to the forum! From the photos it seems to me that the tone capacitor is the green one, while the little brown one connected to the volume pot is the treble bleed, to retain high frequencies when the pot's turned down. Probably the bridge pickup is grounded underneath the bridge plate or through the fixing screws, so there's no need for a separate ground wire.

    The value of the tone capacitor looks like 0.022uF from the pictures, same as the orange one. But you could try substituting the orange one and seeing what difference it makes, if any.
     
    Boiled_Strings likes this.
  4. Boiled_Strings

    Boiled_Strings TDPRI Member

    15
    Aug 5, 2018
    England
    The one on the tone pot is the capacitor that alters the tone when you use the tone control.

    The one on the volume pot is a treble bleed which allows the guitar to maintain the trebly sound as you turn the volume down instead of getting muddier like on some guitars when you turn the volume down.

    The spare capacitor would replace the green one on the tone pot, but I don’t know if it’s worth it; the difference in capacitance between them is small. Some people say they can’t hear a difference, others say they’d definitely hear a difference. Taking their manufacturing tolerance into consideration; they could even be the same actual value regardless of their advertised value. It’s up to you whether you swap them.

    The bridge is likely grounded by the bridge pickup having a grounded baseplate which also grounds the bridge plate when screwed to it.
     
  5. Hokkaidojan

    Hokkaidojan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    10
    Sep 16, 2018
    Japan
    Thanks for the reply!
    Pretty much covered everything. Nice one.
    Have a virtual beer and hi 5 on me! ‍♂️
     
    Boiled_Strings likes this.
  6. Boiled_Strings

    Boiled_Strings TDPRI Member

    15
    Aug 5, 2018
    England
    The capacitor you have on your tone pot is actually what many current Fenders have stock and the value people advise swapping to when posters complain that Fender’s other stock value of 0.047uF is too dark. So it’s a good one.

    The treble bleed is a different value to what Fender use but is the same value that G&L use, so it must be somewhat decent.

    The key piece of information you gave in your OP is that it “sounds great”, so I’d just leave it alone. :lol:
     
  7. TimTam

    TimTam Tele-Meister

    399
    Jun 4, 2010
    Melbourne
    Your green tone capacitor says '223k' ie 0.022 uF.
    The orange one says '203k' ie 0.020 uF.
    https://www.g7lrr.com/capacitor-conversion-chart/

    Switching them would make zero discernible difference.
    'it would sound great in this guitar' .. he was taking you for a fool (or is one himself).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    Tony474 and Boiled_Strings like this.
  8. Hokkaidojan

    Hokkaidojan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    10
    Sep 16, 2018
    Japan
    Good to know Tim Tam! ‍♂️

    To be fair to the original owner, I think he just wasn’t so educated on the matter.
    He had the guitar in its case unused since the late 70s and gave to me free of charge, so I think his intentions were honest.
     
    Boiled_Strings, Tony474 and beagle like this.
  9. Tonetele

    Tonetele Friend of Leo's

    Jun 2, 2009
    South Australia
    Welcome! All opinions are correct as to one ( the smaller) is a treble bleed, the other a tone pot cap. If it sounds goods I'd leave as is. Fernandez are great guitars. I am in a queue to get a lovely maroon Thinline off a guy who makes pickups. It'll be a bidding war.
     
  10. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

    Apr 18, 2014
    Near Detroit, MI
    .

    You're covered from the other posts on what's what in the circuit you have.

    However, I really doubt the originality of all the controls -- maybe they are but some details look too modern. Yellow hookup wire looks new, the green caps are more recent 'modern style' where the brown disk type would have been more likely available back then. Most factories would clip the leads on the caps when installing nor slip on wire insulation. Although the soldering looks like it was done by someone that is used to doing a lot of soldering and I've seen that style of 'horizontal' spring switches.

    Here's a magazine cover with green caps from 1975, but they look different.

    [​IMG]
    1980 transistor radio. I remember all the electronics devices stood all their resistors up like this attempting tighter component density. ... Memory lane.
    [​IMG]

    .
     
    Boiled_Strings likes this.
  11. Hokkaidojan

    Hokkaidojan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    10
    Sep 16, 2018
    Japan
    No idea about capacitors.

    What I do know is the owner of this guitar Bought it from a store new in the late 70s for his son to play.
    Son played a handful of times and lost interest. It was then packed in its case and stored and never used since.
    Owner pulled his garage apart, and knowing I played guitar asked if I would like it. He did say it hasn’t been touched since he put it into storage.
    The body, neck and fretboard look brand new. All the metals on it though were greener and some rust ( from damp?) but it’s very definitely never been played or tinkered with. I have dated it at 1976. This is based on the gold spaghetti logo(1975-1977), correct headstock and the serial stamped at the 22fret 63007 6 being the year.
    That’s all i know.
    Cheers!
     
  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    That treble bleed cap is a .0022mfd cp, I think....which would be more appropriate for that application than a .02mfd.
     
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  13. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    66
    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    BTW....there are NO Fernandes "lawsuit" guitars. The only Japanese guitar maker ever sued was Ibanez, sued by Gibson....and the only feature involved was the "open book" headstock shape. The case was settled out-of-court, with the end result being Ibanez changed the headstock. No other company, American or Asian was ever involved in a lawsuit over copy guitars. This has NOTHING to do with your original (and valid) question, but is only a point of clarification. Many sellers bill their items as "lawsuit" or "lawsuit-era" as a badge of distinction, as if this makes their goods more desirable, even though their copies are nowhere near accurate replicas.....just sayin' ;)
     
    bender66 likes this.
  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Re: lawsuit guitars. It is my understanding that the market refers to any and all MIJ guitars from that period that carried headstock shapes cloned from Gibson, Martin, Fender, Rickenbacker, Guild, etc as ‘lawsuit guitars”. At least, that is how I have seen and heard it used for decades.
     
    Hokkaidojan likes this.
  15. Hokkaidojan

    Hokkaidojan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    10
    Sep 16, 2018
    Japan
    Yup. Tbh, here in Japan the term lawsuit is used to describe any Fender/Gibson copies from the 70s/80s & early 90s.
    While I agree there are many of these guitars that were so badly made and so non accurate it’s funny, there are a whole lot from places like Fujigen and Matsumoku factories that easily compared to the real deal, often passing the originals in quality.

    I own a couple of US & Japanese strats, as well as a white les Paul custom, and love their quality. I have owned some Japanese versions of said or similar models that were easily as good even better in the quality department.

    This particular Tele is absolutely beautiful and of incredible high quality, and as far as I can see very accurate as a replica.
     
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  16. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    66
    Feb 3, 2017
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    Difference of semantics, I guess....not a big issue with me, but I suppose I would think a "lawsuit" guitar would be one involved in a "lawsuit". Maybe "lawsuit era" would be a better term.
    I didn't mean to imply an Asian copy was inferior....I've seen and played Les Paul copies that were easily as good or better than the originals. My #1 is a Korean Fender Squier Tele from 1993, which, although technically not a copy (made by Cort for Fender and under Fender's direct specifications) it is a great instrument.
     
    Hokkaidojan likes this.
  17. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Nojazzhere, as I understand it there was an agreement among all parties from the U.S companies and all of the Japanese manufacturers. Fwiw, Ibáñez is a brand of guitars applied to guitars made by a manufacturer with a completely different name. I have owned a Ventura Howard Roberts lawsuit era guitar that was identical to the Ibáñez branded guitar...same factory made both guitars. That was the only good Ventura I have ever held....and it was a very good guitar...complete with the Gibson trademarked headstock.
     
  18. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    63
    Apr 11, 2016
    Las Vegas, NV
    @Hokkaidojan

    I am surprised that no one bothered to welcome you to this great website! Well, WELCOME to tdpri. I'm also surprised that nobody mentioned the rule here: "Pics, or it didn't happen!" :p Most of us are aficionados of all sorts of "guitar porn" and a great '70s vintage closet queen Fernandez would certainly fit the bill! Also when the more than fair price you paid is factored in, it could make this a truly legendary first thread! :cool: We all look forward to you politely (and quickly) following one of our most steadfast rules! :cool: And we hope you stick around!

    HNOGD,
    Gene
     
  19. Hokkaidojan

    Hokkaidojan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    40
    10
    Sep 16, 2018
    Japan
    Thanks for the welcome!

    I’ve been pretty much schooled in capacitors now thanks to you guys, didn’t want to bore people with pictures, but as requested here’s some (bad) pictures of this Tele:
    EB104E5B-A9B0-4943-B0C7-5346BB66AAEE.jpeg 69FB7991-5FB7-451F-81C9-0B7A47E4CD91.jpeg 77CFE219-F85E-498F-9C30-E034918C7F89.jpeg DE57D1F1-0B41-4D5A-9C73-9C8401CA31E9.jpeg
    BE9E38A4-6673-4DB7-A16F-C2FBA6DA87BA.jpeg C3D441C8-5BDA-47DE-A524-8C8A91EACFFD.jpeg
     
  20. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    63
    Apr 11, 2016
    Las Vegas, NV
    Some nice figuring on the neck and great grain patterns on the body! And thanks again for sharing, you'll do well around here! :D AND the price was right! Enjoy it in good health!
    Don't Be A Stranger,
    Gene
     
    Hokkaidojan likes this.
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