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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Help end the tonewood debate once and for all!

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by CostlyTrick, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. CostlyTrick

    CostlyTrick TDPRI Member

    90
    Jun 17, 2015
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Howdy,

    As a passionate tonewood believer, I've been watching many YouTube videos on the topic. I saw one viewer's comment saying he had sent the MythBusters team an email to cover the topic. I have done the same and I suggest you do as well! You should send the following: http://imgur.com/ye8VWq3

    What's the point? There are multiple theories supporting and against tonewood. Although some claim it is scientifically proven, MANY MANY people still think wood makes no difference whatsoever. This could finally end it once and for all (or at least help.)

    So, tell your friends, tell your family, post on other forums, let the world know to send an email.

    The email goes directly to the makers of the show.

    PS: I'm not looking to take any hate for this. If you don't like my idea, please express your feelings in a non-destructive manner.
     

  2. old goat

    old goat Tele-Holic

    817
    Aug 1, 2008
    Donner Lake
    you're dreaming
     

  3. CostlyTrick

    CostlyTrick TDPRI Member

    90
    Jun 17, 2015
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    Thank you for your input.
     

  4. Dave W

    Dave W Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    70
    May 15, 2003
    Minnesota
    You're not going to end the debate, period. And if you really hoped to try, you wouldn't look to an entertainment program.
     

  5. CostlyTrick

    CostlyTrick TDPRI Member

    90
    Jun 17, 2015
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    Thank you for your input. I'm trying, I'm just trying. I'm doing what I can with the small chance it will help.
     

  6. Obsessed

    Obsessed Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Nov 21, 2012
    Montana
    I think it's a cool idea. I don't have a TV, but my son-in-law always insist I watch an episode or two when I visit. I'm not too sure those guys have good hearing after blowing up all sorts of things, but maybe they will come up with some good methodology. If it makes it on, let us know..
     

  7. CostlyTrick

    CostlyTrick TDPRI Member

    90
    Jun 17, 2015
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    Thank you!
     

  8. moosie

    moosie Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Jul 18, 2010
    Western Connecticut
    Oh my goodness. Imagine how wonderful the world would be, if we could only convert them.

    Seriously. Who cares.

    Uh huh.
     

  9. CostlyTrick

    CostlyTrick TDPRI Member

    90
    Jun 17, 2015
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin

    Your rudeness was not necessary, however, I appreciate your input. Thanks for proving the obvious fact that many people don't care.
     

  10. TelePhartz

    TelePhartz Friend of Leo's

    Jan 11, 2014
    a mile high in AZ
    Why debate? Live and let live.

    Easy.
     

  11. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Tele-Afflicted

    Feb 19, 2015
    TooFarFromCanada
    Whoa, ya'll! Maybe debating would be fruitless in terms of settling this issue. But the guy is just--sincerely--asking!

    And it is an interesting question, physics-wise. We've got a ton of just-curious similar threads and posting on this forum. Most of these are answered sincerely, or maturely unanswered. Why fling boogers at this OP? Something informative may come out of the discussion, especially if someone can cite some verifiable scientific basis for saying X tonewood has more of measurable sound value Y than Z tonewood does.

    I'm kinda disappointed by the sudden sneering here.
     

  12. Danomo

    Danomo Tele-Holic

    894
    Mar 31, 2014
    Chicago
    Definitively end it? I doubt it.
    Adam and Jamie have done entire episodes on ones they got wrong the first AND SECOND time.

    Other than breaking glass and the brown note, they haven't done too well with music/instrument myths... to the point that I think they avoid them. Add to that; the fact they fired the kids and narrowed the scope of the show, I don't think you'll see it.

    I don't see any instrument company offering up identical guitars with different body woods for them to test it with either (who of them wants tonewood debunked). It would have to be a warmoth type build-off, that would require an independent builder/luthier to set them all up identically. Is this something the general public is going to rave over? I don't think so.
     

  13. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 20, 2011
    Englewood, CO
    It's a total waste of time. Whatever little experiments they choose to try will already have been done before and even if God himself agreed with you there would still be those who would not. It's a circular debate so why even bother to bring it up again touting some final resolution when it doesn't exist and won't as long as both sides have different opinions and feel theirs is correct.
     

  14. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Ad Free Member

    Jun 22, 2010
    Osaka, Japan
    The problem is that even "proving" it one way or the other wouldn't end the debate.
    [​IMG]
     

  15. Zepfan

    Zepfan Friend of Leo's

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    It's hard to do sound quality tests on wood with scientific equipment because of the complex variables in each body. Some are very resonant, some are decent and some are poor within the same species of wood.

    Some people think that tonewood matters, some think it has little influence and some believe that it doesn't matter at all. Most people will agree that tonewood is a factor in acoustic guitars, but not on electric guitars.

    I wondered to myself, why would there be a difference between hollow body and solid body? Hollow bodies have a sound chamber that projects sound with a measure of volume. Solid bodies don't have a sound chamber. Do they project sound? Strum your solid body guitar. What do you hear? Is that sound coming from the strings or is it being projected by the body? Put the back of the guitar against your ear and strum the strings. Not only is it easy to tell that the body is projecting the sound, you can also feel the vibrations through the body. So, that is the reason I believe tonewood makes a difference in solid body guitars.

    Okay, but what about the pickups? They have pole pieces under the strings that "pickup" the string vibrations and body vibrations don't matter. Okay, plug your guitar in, mute the strings and knock on the body with your knuckle. Where is that sound coming from? Not the strings. So obviously the pickups "pickup" more than just the string vibrations. If the pickups project the sound coming from the body material, then why doesn't it color the sound? Another reason I believe tonewood matters.

    I had a brief conversation with some one that stated," Just because you say that you can hear a difference, doesn't mean that there is one and it's not scientific". Well if you followed along with me putting the guitar against your ear and listening and hearing, that is called a Physical Science Experiment. Hearing is believing to some, some have to see charts and readings on equipment to believe. Remember, just because you don't hear something, doesn't mean it's not true.
    I'm sure someone will disagree with this little experiment. If you do, offer up a good reason and explanation as to why. And keep it nice.
     

  16. Nick Fanis

    Nick Fanis Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Mar 3, 2003
    Athens-GREECE
    the problem is that there are thousands of passionate tonewood NON believers and since they DO exist your try to "end the debate" is condemned.

    and that is the problem with "passionate" believers ,the only way to "proove" that their beliefs are the ONLY ones that are correct is to.....obliterate the "opposition"

    Think about it...;)
     

  17. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Ad Free Member

    Jun 22, 2010
    Osaka, Japan
    I think one thing we might be losing sight of is that even though there are literally DOZENS of us willing to argue about the role of wood in the sound of an electric guitar, the huge majority of people likely to watch the show have never even wondered about it, and are unlikely to care one way or the other.

    Seriously, consider: hey guys, how about a show debunking the myth that synthetic drum skins sound the same as ones made from animal skin?

    Imagine the conversations around the water coolers the next day:

    A: Did you see Mythbusters last night? Turns out there are extremely slight but scientifically discernible differences in resonant frequencies between two otherwise identical guitars, one with an alder body, and one with ash.

    B: Nah, I changed the channel after the segment about shooting guns underwater.
     

  18. Zepfan

    Zepfan Friend of Leo's

    Nov 30, 2013
    Horn Lake, MS
    :lol::lol::lol:
     

  19. hemingway

    hemingway Friend of Leo's

    Mar 14, 2012
    London, UK
    As far as many people are concerned the debate is already over. Why?

    Because "passionate tonewood believers" will believe whatever they want in the face of common sense, science, you name it. So there is no point debating.
     

  20. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

    Aug 6, 2014
    UK
    As a natural material, I can only imagine it's a variable. Density, hardness, restitution, etc. established by how and where the tree grew and the weather at the time and how it has been seasoned all in a mix of other construction and design variables. Variety within a species may easily exceed differences between species too in that context.

    I'd imagine, the impact of wood is more likely to be evident in an acoustic instrument. I know a good one when I hear it, and that is what counts though. Some are bright and sharp, some are dark and woolly and that does 'seem' to relate to wood IME but I am generalising (and may be wrong)

    Given the complex system, strongly reliable consistency is much less likely than a variety of mixed results which would confuse those wanting some definitive answer on this.

    Only some mass pattern research could get close to an answer. One off, side by side tests and small samples, unlikely. Even then, pick up any two guitars and it's still a crapshoot.
     

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