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Guitar Push/Pull Tone Switch

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by feloniuspunk, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. feloniuspunk

    feloniuspunk TDPRI Member

    Age:
    69
    43
    Sep 27, 2006
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Here's a cool mod to make your regular tone pot into a more useful tone control. IN, it functions as a mid-range cut/boost knob. OUT, it functions as a regular tone control.

    Works well on Tele's or Strats.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. guitarzan13

    guitarzan13 Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    53
    Jul 25, 2006
    LaGrange, GA
    hmmmm.... looks cool, also.
     
  3. Mr. E

    Mr. E Tele-Holic

    602
    Mar 18, 2008
    Texas
    Is this the same thing as this? http://alexplorer.net/guitar/guitars/telecaster.html
    (scroll down to modification #5)
     
  4. Mr. E

    Mr. E Tele-Holic

    602
    Mar 18, 2008
    Texas
    Forgot to ask. Would it go well with P90s? How about lipstick pickups?
     
  5. feloniuspunk

    feloniuspunk TDPRI Member

    Age:
    69
    43
    Sep 27, 2006
    Yorktown, Virginia
    I think it is about the same thing. I checked out your web site reference and it sure sounds the same. Your reference just didn't give the specific component values, so about that I'm not sure, and the push/pull function is reversed.

    As for the lipstick or P-90's, it's supposed to work on all passive pickups all the time, it does not matter what brand as long as they are not active (use a battery) - independent of pot values or other tone controls on the guitar.

    It's also similar to this:

    http://www.torresengineering.com/supmidandton.html
     
  6. tap4154

    tap4154 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    I made one of those a couple years ago. It was fun to make, but at the price Torres charges, probably just better to buy one. They work well. Very interesting tone, though you lose a lot of volume when you drop the mids.

    http://www.jpbourgeois.org/guitar/microsbis.htm#Combo

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. feloniuspunk

    feloniuspunk TDPRI Member

    Age:
    69
    43
    Sep 27, 2006
    Yorktown, Virginia
    I've had one of these in my Strat for years and really like it. However, I should point out that the component values on the Torres version are different than those listed on the schematic you posted. If you built one yourself using those values it would sound and work quite differently.

    The resistor values in your schematic are correct (pot = 500K; 220K fixed; 1 meg fixed), but the .39uF/220K R/C network is actually a .039uF/220K network (10 times less capacitance). Likewise, the .2uF/1M R/C network is actually a .002uF/1M network (100 times less capacitance). The original tone cap is a .033Uf cap.

    When using the control in the max mid boost mode, the 500K pot is zero ohms and only the .002uF/1M network remains in the signal path to ground, effectively boosting the mids and passing only the very highest frequencies to ground.

    Using an R/C network of .2uF/1M is two orders of magnitude (100 times) less impedance to all signal frequencies and would act quite differently, and drop off overall volume considerably as well.


    The Devil is in the Details ...


    Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny.
     
  8. tap4154

    tap4154 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member


    Good catch!

    I did, however, also catch the error back when I made mine, but forgot about it when I posted that schematic here. On the same page as the push-pull pot schematic was this one...

    [​IMG]

    ...for a regular mid-cut (no regular tone option), but it still says .02. not .002 as you suggest.

    In any case, I used .039 and .02 (because I suspected the other values -- .39 and .2 -- were wrong) and .047 for the tone cap. Are you sure about the .0002 cap. Seems like too low of a value...

    Thanks for correcting that, in case anyone was building one!
     
  9. feloniuspunk

    feloniuspunk TDPRI Member

    Age:
    69
    43
    Sep 27, 2006
    Yorktown, Virginia
    The cap in series with the 1 meg resistor is a tiny green one with "2A202K" on it. That part number converts to .002uF. 202 means 20 + 2 more zeroes; or, 20 + 0 + 0 = 2000pF (the value is always in pico-farads), which is the same as 0.002 uF. So, you're right, both .2 and .02 are too large and .0002 is too small. The .002 value works great in series with the 1 meg resistor forming an R/C network to effectively boost the mids and cut only the real high frequencies.

    You can check this site:
    http://www.csgnetwork.com/capcodeinfo.html

    and this one too:
    http://www.wjoe.com/capacitorinfo2.htm

    They're both pretty good at explaining the capacitor coding system.

    I consider myself more of a gigging guitar player than a recording guitarist, although I've done some recording. Recording is such a different situation from playing live though that it's like comparing apples and oranges. At a gig I find that I want my guitar to be able to perform certain basic functions and deliver a certain basic range of tones without a lot of knob setting. I'm also just as against having too many options on a guitar I use for playing live, too much to remember.

    My live gigs are usually bar gigs or private things like weddings. For bar gigs I need to be able to play all the raunchy old sounding R&R like Honky Tonk Woman, Pride and Joy, Red House and so on. Weddings however I need my axe to be able to do that in the 3rd and 4th sets, but in the 1st and 2nd sets I also need to sound believable on tunes like The Way You Look Tonight, Fly Me To The Moon and some oldies including Motown and tunes like Shout, My Girl, Sugar Pie Honeybunch and even, yes, I admit it, Girl From Ipanema.

    I love playing weddings. The pay is good, there's free food, lots of pretty girls and everyone's happy. It's all about reading the crowd and knowing when to do what. But by the time a good wedding crowd gets to the 3rd and 4th sets the people are usually filled with enough liquor to want to hear The Electric Slide, Boot Scootin' Boogie and then maybe a slow dance number like Unchained Melody. We're also just as likely to get a request for some of that funky old James Brown stuff like I Feel Good or Papa's Got A Brand New Bag too.

    The whole point is that I like to just play one guitar and make a couple of simple adjustments between tunes to get "that" sound without a lot of hassle. To me that's what makes any guitar worth it's weight in gold, its overall versatility.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrK5u5W8afc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtqDB2spyG0

    My wedding bands usually have at least one trumpet player and one sax player and often a trombone as well, plus a keyboard. Half of my job as the guitarist is keeping out of the way when I'm supposed to. But when The guitar is the main sound, everyone knows when it's right and when it isn't, not just the guitar player.
     
  10. mlormans

    mlormans TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    21
    Aug 2, 2009
    Atuatuca Tungrorum
    Craig Anderton's 5-Way Tele-On-Steroids Modification + Midrange Cut / Boost

    Fender '62 Reissue Telecaster Custom MIJ.
    Model TLC-62B in the colour CAR (Candy Apple Red).
    Serial number A031062 : first MIJ (Made In Japan) series 1985-1986.

    Under the control plate I did the following mods to this Tele :

    1) Treble boost mod with 500ka dpdt push-pull pots instead of the standard 250ka pots for volume and tone, this mod gives more volume and treble to this Tele and the dpdt switches on the bottomside of the push-pull pots give extra switching possibilities.

    2) Volume vs tone syndrome : to eliminate this I've soldered a 0,001 µf capacitor across the wiper lug and the hot lug of the volume pot.

    3) Craig Anderton's 5-way Tele-On-Steroids mod instead of the standard Tele circuit with 3-way switch, this mod gives 4 extra combinations on top of the 3 standard Tele combinations, I've discovered this great mod in a Feb. 1993 issue of Guitar Player Magazine, see below weblink :

    http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/_gtr/gp0293_diy_gtr_wiring.pdf

    Volume push-pull pot switched down (neck & bridge pickup in phase) :

    Pos1 : bridge pickup only
    Pos2 : bridge & neck pickups in parallel
    Pos3 : neck pickup only
    Pos4 : neck pickup with special tone capacitor (0,0047 µf) for "cocked" wah
    Pos5 : neck & bridge pickups in series

    Volume push-pull pot switched up (neck & bridge pickup out of phase) :

    Pos1 : bridge pickup only
    Pos2 : bridge & neck pickups in parallel + out of phase "quack"
    Pos3 : neck pickup only
    Pos4 : neck pickup with special tone capacitor (0,0047 µf) for "cocked" wah
    Pos5 : neck & bridge pickups in series + out of phase "quack"

    4) Tone push-pull pot switched down : normal tone control with smaller 0,022 µf instead of the regular 0,047 µf tone capacitor, this smaller tone capacitor value is more useful and prevents that the guitar tone becomes to muddy when the pot is turned completely counterclockwise.

    5) Tone push-pull pot switched up : midrange cut / boost control, with the help of a LCR network the midrange is filtered out and only low & high frequencies are remaining when the pot is turned completely counterclockwise = midrange cut, when the pot is turned completely clockwise the low & high frequencies are filtered out and the midrange is remaining = midrange boost.

    6) Shielding blues : every Tele has the metal cover of the neck pickup and the metal baseplate of the bridge pickup connected with the black wire (cold) of each pickup, to be able to wire the neck & bridge pickups in series without that they both start to work as an antenna and pickup external noise, remove the connection of the metal cover with the black wire (cold) of the neck pickup, and also remove the connection of the metal baseplate with the black wire (cold) of the bridge pickup, and connect a seperate grounding wire from the metal cover of the neck pickup and also connect a seperate grounding wire from the metal baseplate of the bridge pickup to a central grounding point under the control plate, from each pickup we have now 3 instead of 2 wires going to the control plate.


    This hot-rod Tele is now a versatile tonemonster, with a Fender Princeton Reverb or Deluxe Reverb it cuts easily through the mix in a band. :cool:


    Pos4 : neck pickup with special tone capacitor (0,0047 µF)-> for "cocked" wah, 0,0033 µF or 0,0022 µF cap values also work well with overdrive. :cool:

    Pos5 : neck & bridge pickups in series -> both pickups work as a streched humbucker for extra output without the humbucking effect. :cool:

    Pos2 & Pos5 with the volume push-pull pot switched up : out of phase "quack" for those trademark T-Bone Walker or BB-King blueslicks. :cool:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  11. Sailindawg

    Sailindawg TDPRI Member

    Age:
    59
    9
    Jan 4, 2017
    US
    I really like this thread even though it's like 5 years old.

    I have a question, the very first post shows the tone knob being modded into a push pull. In one setting, one gets a mid range boost or cut.

    Does this mod need a 9 volt battery?

    Thanks!
     
  12. mlormans

    mlormans TDPRI Member

    Age:
    48
    21
    Aug 2, 2009
    Atuatuca Tungrorum
    This is a passive tone control, no batteries needed...
     
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