Grateful Dead question...

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by beninma, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. Seasicksailor

    Seasicksailor Friend of Leo's

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    On the upside, the whole thing gave us He's Gone. :)
     
  2. raysachs

    raysachs Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    That was obviously not the point of my post. YOU claimed they played whatever they wanted with different players playing different time signatures with no attention to the beat. My response was not about my own appreciation of 11/8, but merely pointing out that your post was pure bovine excrement. Nobody plays 11/8, even poorly, using the approach (or lack thereof) you suggest. You’re obviously entitled to dislike like the Dead - we all get to like and dislike what we will. But statements about how lazy and undisciplined they were are just factually wrong and I’m calling you out on THAT. So bless your own pointy little heart...
     
  3. Chiogtr4x

    Chiogtr4x Friend of Leo's

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    " He's Gone" is ( IMO) a great example of what I call the Dead's 'slow-funk' jams.

    I always thought they were pretty consistent with their rhythm and tempo, maybe I'm more forgiving/look past their imperfections, as I LOVE their music and sound.

    Two GD that I will never be able to count ( I hear they are maybe in 7/4 or 14, but cant tell how the beats are actually divided- I can never find the " 1" !!)
    are " Estimated Prophet" and " Terrapin Station"
    But love 'em both!
     
  4. jondanger

    jondanger Poster Extraordinaire

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    Along with Ramble on Rose, and Tennessee Jed - the GD slow funk trilogy.
     
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  5. Chiogtr4x

    Chiogtr4x Friend of Leo's

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    Tennessee Jed is definitely the #1 - what a groove!

    I throw in one more ( more obscure) Weir song that I love, " Black Throated Wind" ( play at home but not at gigs)
    maybe not quite as funky, but it captivates me!
     
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  6. raysachs

    raysachs Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    This is the best Tennessee Jed I ever had the pleasure of hearing live. You can pretty much always find the 1 if you feel the need and the solo works its self into a hell of a fine lather between 7 and 8 minutes in. Jerry was hoarse, but his voice got stronger as the show went on - they'd just come up the California Coast for about 10 days and my understanding is Bobby was singing EVERYTHING on that run because Jerrys voice was toast. This was my second Dead show and I saw a lot of good ones (and a few duds), but this one was the best by far... They released it in the Dave's Picks series sometime in the past couple of years... I always had good copies of this show, but when they put it out on CD, I was in heaven... The Close Encounters jam from this show is pretty legendary...

     
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  7. Marc Muller

    Marc Muller Tele-Holic

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    There's a section in St. Stephen where the drums are playing in 3 and the rest are playing in 4 in a different tempo and somehow they all come crashing in on 1 at the same time. Just incredible. Got to ask Phil how they did that and he said they practiced and practiced.
    I don't think they were just stoners that randomly jammed. Much work and time playing and living together shaped their sound.
     
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  8. Chip

    Chip Tele-Afflicted

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    A little hair on the Wolf in that version!

    Thanks,
    chip
     
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  9. Marc Muller

    Marc Muller Tele-Holic

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    Sounds like single coil Travis Bean. Just post Englishtown. Still have mud on my shoes from that weekend.
     
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  10. raysachs

    raysachs Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    He was definitely playing Wolf that night. There are a number of photos of that show and he was wearing some kind of football jersey (high fashion for Jerry - actual stuff on the shirt!) and playing Wolf. I saw them for the first time a few months earlier in Portland (10/02/77) and he was definitely playing the Travis Bean that night. You can hear it real clearly at about the 2:40 mark in this. Jerry had a mic failure that night and so they had this massive mid-tune jam on Casey Jones, which was pretty weird. Kind of a similar sound - I guess something he was going for at that point with whatever he was playing. I never heard him sound quite like that Eugene show again after that though.

     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  11. Marc Muller

    Marc Muller Tele-Holic

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    Saw Alligator in 73, Wolf in 74, then the 2 TBs. Missed the SG. By the time he got to the other Irwin gtrs I'd sorta moved on down the Beck/Morse/Miles road. Still playing Dead though.
     
  12. CJM3309

    CJM3309 Tele-Meister

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    I love that song too. I've been working on that one at home for a bit. I really like this Bob solo version below. His Martin sounds great

     
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  13. Chip

    Chip Tele-Afflicted

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    I’m just a young whippersnapper of 51.
    I only saw him play Rosebud....
    00B461CA-BF66-4842-8FDA-E3169AE31A37.png

    & the black Stratocaster on space.....
    4010546C-3AED-44DA-91E4-2365A271FC4E.jpeg

    He was playing the Cripe guitar - Lightning Bolt - a lot on the last tour but they had problems with it and again he used Rosebud on the shows that I saw.

    I kinda feel like I have a connection with that guitar.
     
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  14. Chiogtr4x

    Chiogtr4x Friend of Leo's

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    This is pretty much exactly how I play it at home ( plus I have cheap, but good sounding Martin) I kind of do the Jerry double stops right before each verse...I just love the imagery and melody of BTW!

    I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I'd love to record this song at my buddy's Pro Tools studio ( just his living room, but he knows how to record well)

    I'd like to just keep it simple:

    play two electric parts ( Bob/Jerry) sing vocal ( no harmonies on this one!)- my buddy can add bass, acoustic piano model on keyboard, and he has great drum samples know to 'play' drums tapping his fingers- really.

    We are a good pair- I'm a live performer type, no patience for recording after 2-3 hours max, and he is ( now) a studio hermit, thorough/perfectionist!
     
  15. raysachs

    raysachs Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I was into Miles, Beck, Coltrane, Monk, etc before I got into the Dead. Never left them and never fully left the Dead either (although there were a lot of years they were way on the back burner), but always stayed into those other folks. Never really got Morse, though - maybe I'll go back and check out some of his stuff again...
     
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  16. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Another issue when players try to follow Dead tunes is that Bob Weir plays more/different/changing chord inversions than any player know, and often uses partial or extended chords, shifting positions in the middle of a measure. Or even single beat. If you look at Dead lead sheets or tab the "chords" shown are not usually the same thing Bob is playing, except on a few of the acoustic tunes and traditional cover songs. Others may show "F#m" but it may move from a full chord to a two-note "Freddie
    Green" chord (dropping the primary chord tones that others will be playing) and also shift from a 6m through single notes to some extended minor chord.

    Combine that with the shifting rhythms and it can be hard material to "copy". My suggestion is to just try to jam along and play riffs that fit sound-wise. Jam band music is not for everyone - I find it really fun to play while others need to have structure. It doesn't take long to figure out which you are - although I don't recommend it for beginners, as t can take some decent experience to work through.
     
  17. Greggorios

    Greggorios Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Agreed. One of the wonderful things about being a dead fan right now is the number of outstanding quality recordings that have become available, particularly in the Dave's Picks series. Much of what Marc, Ray and others are referring to is more and more evident in these fresh, clear and clean recordings, particularly the "Betty Boards". Not like the old tape days, these things are beautiful to listen to. As many have said, listen to the Cornell show; that ain't no random jammin' my friends. :)

    “We're like licorice. Not everybody likes licorice, but the people who like licorice really like licorice.” (Garcia)

    I really like licorice, maybe you don't. That's OK. :cool:
     
  18. raysachs

    raysachs Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Agree with all of this, but there have actually been a LOT of "Betty Boards" around in taping circles for a good long time. There was a recent settlement of some kind between Betty and the organization that freed up a whole bunch more that she was holding on to, so they'll probably be a lot more of them showing up in "Dave's Picks". That Eugene show from early '78 was part of the recent haul - there had never been really good soundboard tapes of that show around, but there were some pretty incredible audience recordings of it. Now there's a pristine soundboard available on CD. But my first show, from a few months earlier, I've had Betty Boards of that since the mid-80s or so. And a LOT of those classic '77 shows, like Cornell and many many others, are considered classics largely because of the incredible soundboard tapes of them that have been in circulation for roughly ever.

    But for sure, there are better recordings available more easily of more and more shows today than there ever have been, so if you're in the mood to listen to some Dead from any given era, you should be able to find plenty of good quality recordings, usually streaming online. Life is good, licorice, is good!

    -Ray
     
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  19. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

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    At least it was, in your view, PURE "bovine excrement" and not something adulterated or diluted in any way.
    I will consider that a thumbs up from you.
    Many thanks.
     
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  20. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I was trying to jam along with Franklin’s Tower at the suggestion of my teacher.

    He kind of just left me with it. Named the chords and said to jam along on the major pentatonic or mixolydian.

    I got the rhythm down today and had a blast. I never tried anything with a mixolydian scale before, super fun.

    I really like the whole album. Had the song stuck in my head all day.

    Anytime I try to learn anything I end up going down on a streaming music deep dive of that band, I think I’m going to be listening to a whole bunch of Grateful Dead.
     
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