Glad to be back, Keto nearly killed me...

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by DrPepper, Mar 13, 2019 at 8:16 PM.

  1. beninma

    beninma Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Always a good idea to be careful if you're doing anything that isn't common sense with your diet.

    Keto has definitely hit fad status... amazing how many advertisements I see about it. GNC has a whole row of "Keto Supplements" for you to waste your money on.

    We have a friend who is a nutritionist, she thinks it's an insane diet to try without supervision/medical help. (She has patients on it)

    Sensible diet + activity levels shouldn't be so hard.. most of the fittest people you know eat plenty of carbs. But a good bit of exercise can offset a lot of food and they're often not eating as much as you'd think.
     
  2. rcole_sooner

    rcole_sooner Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I'm glad you're okay, but I don't think "keto" is to be blamed here.

    I don't like any of the "fad" diets. I prefer an eating lifestyle change ... healthy foods mostly ... fun foods/drinks sometimes ... moderation.

    If one is not well, they need to see a doctor and follow their advice.
     
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  3. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Are you a GI specialist, physician or researcher in that area to know that? It is conflicts with all the care and knowledge I got from the specialists who dealt with my pancreas problems.

    To some extent your saying it won't work conflicts with the long-term patients my nephew deals with. He's a leader of a team that does very high risk surgery where the long-term care patients are extremely unhealthy and guided toward levels of better so they can survive surgery. Most of his cases that are not urgent are people who are very overweight and with some terrible habits and addictions.

    Controlling impulsive and managing self are not easy but were a major part to start and keep my being 10 years into better living. It is not easy but doing things in moderation and especially diet are what help you make it sustainable. In two years of regular visits to a research hospital GI and endocrine specialists something stood out in the waiting room - how the most common diet they hand out is basic common sense. Well rounded and in moderation. Each of the GI, endocrine and cardio specialists I've seen emphasized the well balanced diet and moderation as solutions to both the medical problems and sustaining well being or decent lifestyle.
     
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  4. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    any really serious change to your diet IF YOU HAVE EXISTING CONDITIONS should be done with your doctor consulting. OP had 50% blockage and embarked on a diet with probably minimal knowledge personally and no guidance from his doctor. It CAN BE dangerous. My BIL on the advice of his doctor, followed a keto diet and lost 120 lbs. His blood pressure is normal, he is no longer pre diabetic, his cholesterol numbers are fantastic, he is, effectively, a new man. We are all a little bit different and if we have existing issues (like 50% blockage) probably need to get professional help before we launch into something we don't know much about.
     
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  5. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

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    I don't have pancreas problems, and I'm not a GI specialist. I've read the same studies everyone else can about keto and obesity, and noticed that the studies that show statistically improved blood work for patients who have failed on other diets tend toward 80% unsaturated fats.

    So, there's a blueprint to do it. Their results were far better than a moderation diet would've been. The hook in it that people need to see is that it's very easy to consume a lot of saturated fat, but relatively harder to do it with a healthier fat balance. Personally, I have much more success on it than moderation.

    It's all fine and good that you know physicians who really like diet in moderation. If it worked really well, we wouldn't be talking about keto. You have to decide if it's more important to argue about methods or shoot to achieve results. When I drop 20 pounds on keto, and someone else is telling me it's unhealthy (when it doesn't have to be), I generally wonder if they really care about the results I'm getting or they just want to be right.

    You can go to ten different doctors and get ten different diet recommendations. Most of them love the "go exercise an hour a day and eat lean meat and low fat foods", because it works if you do it. The practical success rate isn't good, though. Success on it is lower as a percentage than something like keto or atkins - so if you don't have success on it, rather than beating your head against a wall, look around a little bit and try something else different.

    I'd successful in practice than fat and winning an argument in theory.

    (i'm not saying a moderation diet doesn't work, by the way, but it's the oldest diet in the book probably other than intentional starvation. If moderation worked that well across the board, we wouldn't be talking about other diets. Moderation and low fat have been the "fad diet" for 65+ years now, but other alternatives for people who don't manage to make them work isn't a bad thing, and this idea that one is better than the other for everyone is just dumb.

    It creates all of the stupid arguments on the internet of "eat lots of sugar, be vegan" vs. "Keto is the only way" vs. "eat in moderation and lots of small meals". Everyone wants to be right, and they want their right to be dictated to everyone else. I have no interest in what you do or what works for you. Your circumstances are different than mine, your business, not mine. But I'm not going to sit here and argue about what i have success with or what someone else has success with - you're arguing about things you think regarding things I know. That doesn't make sense. Do what you please, but don't expect me to do what you please. I don't expect you to do what I please.

    I've lost a combined total of 40 pounds on keto. If I eat a lot of sat fats, my cholesterol numbers get a little worse, but the ratio doesn't (the ratio at this point is the much stronger link to heart disease). If I control the types of fats, my blood numbers are better than a generalized unrestricted diet (or what you call moderation). And I feel better on either type of keto diet than I do on moderation. So, do what you want.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 10:20 AM
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  6. mimmo

    mimmo Friend of Leo's

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    Happy to hear that you are back and safe!
     
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  7. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity

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    Hmmm, what I read said it was the primarily fat diet, not the low carb diet, that puts your body in ketosis.
    Maybe they do similar things, but not the same thing?

    Also notable is that some who go adkins have fun eating really fatty foods because it feels more comforting, or more like getting away with something during a time of denied food pleasures. So it seems some on low carb diets actually self administer a high fat diet just for fun and because it's allowed, without intending to go keto.
    When adkins was hot I kept hearing excitement about the all bacon and sausages diet.
    Hmmm.

    And there is medical info that says the keto diets ketosis is mild ketoacidosis, which may be different from alternate low carb diets that are not specifically high fat diets.
    The high fat is what more strongly forces the liver function.

    And of course here the high fat that helped the weight hurt the heart.

    Totally agree that obesity is harmful, but we also know that extreme diets are sometimes harmful.
    Controlled eating is tough, partly because we have this huge industry pushing unhealthy food on us at every turn.

    I've actually chosen to cut the carb portion of meals several nights a week, including some night just having a giant salad with avocado and a little feta and cheddar, dressed with home made EV olive oil/ vinegar/ fresh lemon/ garlic dressing.
    Or fried shrimp or chicken with lots of garlic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 11:15 AM
  8. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    When I suggest things to myself that don’t run into a “hmmm...that doesn’t sound right” filter ? I go with them.


    -Adapt/adopt portions/facets of diets that appeal to you. (Not the Twinkie diet or the bacon diet. But - I’m about to eat a banana !:eek: )

    -Work out/exercise longer and harder than is recommended for your age group and/or the average adult ( instead of 30 minutes walking a day , do an hour and a half and make roughly a third to half of that intense .)
     
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  9. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Holic

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    I lost 50 lbs just by giving up sodas for a year, then I did Keto and lost another 50. Now, on the whole food plant based diet I can keep it off and still drop a few pounds (eat when I'm hungry, and eat until I'm full without having to keep track of calories).

    Next years lipid panel and CT scan should show improvements... I'll keep you guys posted...
     
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  10. 6String69

    6String69 TDPRI Member

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    So before I did keto, I was basically eating whatever, and trying to keep a general idea of how many calories I was consuming. It didn’t work. Even with going to the gym 3x a week. I noticed I was starving by lunch and starving by 5. I would often eat a chimachenga or a small pizza or something like that.

    After I got used to being on keto, I noticed that my appetite dropped dramatically. I could eat 12 grilled nuggets from Chick-fil-a for lunch and not be that hungry at dinner. Later into the diet, I would eat six. I stopped liking the sauce too.

    We generally eat too many complex carbs and way too much sugar. I think part of the reason keto works is because it makes us reset our diet. We lose the weight on keto and then really, just watch your amount of sugar and carbs and figure out how much you can get away with without gaining weight. But also, our appetite changes. Maybe it’s blood sugar, I don’t know.

    Keto changed my habits. I eat pizza now, I just dump the whole top into a bowl and throw out the crust.

    I eat fettuccine alfredo, I just make a nice big chicken breast and cover it with sauce. No pasta. Would you eat a pile of plain noodles? Me niether.

    I get five guys, take of the bun, eat it off a plate with a fork.

    I don’t eat fried anything. Blackened grouper is one of my favorite things to make. Fried tastes like old grease now.

    I make my own North Alabama bbq sauce and sub in equal for sugar. I bring home a lb of pulled pork and go to town.

    Sugar free vanilla ice cream from Breyers is excellent.

    You get the idea. Yeah it’s strange, maybe what I do is considered dirty keto, I get it. But I feel awesome. I earned a white belt in kung fu and love going to class. I paddle board and bike on the weekend. I haven’t felt this capable and in shape since high school. I am 40. I’m 6’4 and weigh 203 lbs as of this morning.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 11:34 AM
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  11. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Holic

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    As of now, ldl @ 100, hdl @ 38, total cholesterol 161. Now that I am not eating any meat/dairy/oil, my numbers should improve

    Being wfpb since the end of 2018, my blood sugars have dropped to 86 from 103...

    Almost off blood pressure meds... Used to be @140/90, now 120/70, heart rate now in the 70's at rest, used to be 100 at rest....
     
  12. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    SoOOoo... keto is great? Is that what the takeaway is?
     
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  13. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Holic

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    What about countries where they eat a starch based diet and cardiologist make more money chipping cement off bricks than with their medical education?
     
  14. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Holic

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    Buyer beware...:)
     
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  15. 6String69

    6String69 TDPRI Member

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    I couldn’t tell ya. It worked for me after years of frustration. People are all different though.
     
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  16. drf64

    drf64 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Experts on everything about you, we are. What's good for me is best for everyone else.
     
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  17. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Holic

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    Correct, my improper non-monitored attempt at Keto was my down fall. I think keto can be good with proper implementation and doctor supervision, anything less is akin to playing lawn-darts...
     
  18. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

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    Anything that puts you in caloric deficit should help BP at least temporarily. Mind your HDL number and the ratio, but WFPB generally gives pretty good results with blood work.

    I don't know the answer for everyone, it seems like a variety of things work, but we're finally starting to get some good studies about certain things that are toppling some of the old assumptions (like total cholesterol being much of a consideration without looking at the ratio - it just doesn't seem to be a very good predictor for most people, but that also doesn't mean that the same will be true for all).

    The assumption that statins will lead to a longer life for people under 65, and that lower is always better for outcomes doesn't actually materialize when you do an actual population study, but just to jab the other side of the argument, they do appear to increase life expectancy when taken over 65. Sometimes reality makes both sides mad.

    http://www.theactuary.com/features/2018/08/statin-prescription-figures-on-the-pulse/

    (outcomes are definitely improved for people who have *already* had a heart attack. )

    This study is far deeper and far more useful than some of the short term published drug trial studies.

    The next several decades might be more interesting for finding out genetic ties plus trial of oddball things. 20 years ago, I remember the huge push toward smaller meals more times a day, because that would be more healthy. That sounds good when you hear it "even out the intake and there will be fewer spikes and we'll be better off". It appears at this point for mice that forcing them to eat all of their calories at one time instead of spread throughout the day actually leads to them living longer. are we like mice? Who knows. But that approach wouldn't work for some, and for others (especially diabetics), it seems to improve A1C immensely. It'd be lovely if we could get a long term controlled study to see if changing the numbers due to it actually leads to increased life expectancy.

    The "common knowledge" that statins will make everyone live longer doesn't appear to be true. It looks like it makes certain cohorts live longer, but the groups who get no life expectancy improvement may be looking forward to accelerating the date that they become diabetic. Not a real good trade.
     
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  19. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

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    I'm glad you made it out OK. It's a good reminder for the rest of us (including me, who likes keto) to continue to go to the doc and get our numbers checked. If someone gets on keto and they have a huge spike in LDL and no corresponding spike in HDL, that IS correlated with lower life expectancy. Then if you like the Keto, you can see if you want to torture yourself replacing the saturated fats with unsaturated, and try again.

    I like the WFPB in terms of what you can eat, but i don't feel good on it and have cognitive issues and a lot of hunger (and incredible amounts of searing gas - complex carbohydrate intolerance). If it worked well for me, I'd do it. It feels like you can eat more on it just because of the volume of stuff you can take in.
     
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  20. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

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    Glad you're still here! Keep those pipes clear.
     
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