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Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com
Asher Guitars WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Nordstarnd Pickups Warmoth.com

Give it to me straight doctor...

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by Sarde, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Sarde

    Sarde TDPRI Member

    63
    Apr 16, 2016
    San Pedro, CA
    I sealed the body with bullzeye shellac spray (non wax) and grain filled it. I then applied the reranch nitro white primer. Overnight I went from excitement to dread. There is clearly a finish incompatibility.

    I am assuming I have to sand all the primer off and reseal the entire body with something compatible with reranch nitro primer. Any suggestions on products to seal the body with that are confirmed compatible with re ranch primer, hopefully something I can get from home depot? Also, any suggestions on stripping the body down?

    -Sarde


    Now, all the nasty pics for your enjoyment. Watch the transformation before your eyes; from smooth to haggard!
    smooth 1.JPG smooth 2.JPG cracked 1.JPG cracked 2.JPG
     

  2. markeyd123

    markeyd123 Tele-Meister

    158
    Jun 27, 2017
    USA
    I'm no expert but I don't understand why you would use shellac as a primer when shellac is a finish coat which paint will not really stick to. Read here for how to paint over shellac, but looks like you made more work for yourself:

    http://homeguides.sfgate.com/painting-over-shellac-wood-deglosser-34566.html

    "products called deglossers, designed to scuff up shiny finishes such as shellac, muting their reflectiveness or preparing them to bond to a new finish."

    edit: I'd sand that down again getting rid of as much of the shellac as possible. If you at least roughen the surface of the shellac enough with sandpaper then maybe the primer will stick to it so you can paint.
     

  3. Macrogats

    Macrogats Tele-Holic

    Age:
    50
    501
    May 15, 2017
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I have a question re Shellac. I've been eying up the above mentioned Bullseye Zinsser product in amber for a possible finish on a build or two. It says it's not to be used with any poly type finish - and evidently NOT paint of any sort!

    What sort of finish does Shellac give? And how many coats are normally recommended? Would a dye or stain work around the edges for a burst effect before applying Shellac?

    Good luck with fixing your project up Sarde.
     

  4. Billnchristy

    Billnchristy Tele-Meister

    213
    Sep 21, 2017
    Georgia
    Insta relic, I like it.
     
    Chanan likes this.

  5. cabra velha

    cabra velha Tele-Holic Platinum Supporter

    908
    Jan 21, 2016
    sub arctic
    I'd throw it together with some GFS parts and flog it on feebay as a custom relic finish.

    Seriously, thats an interesting experiment, never had that result but all of my shellac adventures were mixed from flake and rubbed/brushed on.
     

  6. trev333

    trev333 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    ice ice baby.....

    never had a problem with shellac under all kinds of finishes.... it could have been the nitro?....

    did you let the coats all dry properly before adding more?...
     
    DrASATele, awasson and old wrench like this.

  7. Sarde

    Sarde TDPRI Member

    63
    Apr 16, 2016
    San Pedro, CA
    Shellac normally goes with every kind of finish. It usually makes a decent sand and seal coat too. I have in my house painting days used it to cover over oil based so I could coat with latex. There is simply something about the bullzeye spray and the re ranch nitro that didn’t work. I should have tested it on a scrap first.

    I did sand the gloss off the shellac before priming and letting it dry overnight.

    Any suggestions besides relic (I’d rather earn my dings and wear marks)? I still need a compatible seal coat under the nitro re ranch primer.
     
    thecrushr and awasson like this.

  8. El Tele Lobo

    El Tele Lobo Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 21, 2014
    Florida
    The Bullseye stuff is Waxed shellac. You want UNwaxed if you want it to play nicely with other finishes.
     
    FirTrader likes this.

  9. El Tele Lobo

    El Tele Lobo Tele-Afflicted

    Oct 21, 2014
    Florida
    Plus, I hear the stuff you mix from the flakes is much better than the canned stuff. Lesson learned. We all goof something up now and then. Thankfully, it's usually fixable. Good luck. Don't give up!
     

  10. trev333

    trev333 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    I mix my own shellac from flakes..leave it in a jar in the sun to stay warm to completely dissolve for a day or so...shaking it a few times to mix properly.. then strain it through an old t shirt...

    then slop it on with a rag dipped in the jar or a brush.... spend a day loading up coats.... let that dry/harden for a few days outside... I don't get too cute with it....

    then block sand most of it off back to the wood... maybe wipe some more on and sand that back to be sure it has filled all the divots....shellac is cheap....

    then proceed with whatever finish chosen... allowing time between coats to skin off before doing more....

    never be in a hurry to finish coat a guitar....
     

  11. sammy123

    sammy123 Tele-Meister Gold Supporter

    328
    Jul 25, 2011
    MKE
    He said he used non-waxed. Also Zinsser does sell a non-waxed version in a can. It's harder to find, but I have some. Usually Home stores only have the waxed clear and amber. I went to Amazon to get the de-waxed clear.

     

  12. Sarde

    Sarde TDPRI Member

    63
    Apr 16, 2016
    San Pedro, CA
    The spray stuff is Unwaxed. But lesson learned in not testing compatibility.
     

  13. old wrench

    old wrench Tele-Meister

    Too heavy or too thick coat of primer all at once?

    That looks like what happened to me one time when I put on way too heavy a coat. All that reducer/thinner finally dries up and the remaining solids shrunk up and cracked or crazed just like that.


    Best Regards,
    Geo.
     

  14. Sarde

    Sarde TDPRI Member

    63
    Apr 16, 2016
    San Pedro, CA
    I sanded it down today :cry:
     

  15. Mad Kiwi

    Mad Kiwi Tele-Afflicted

    I doubt Shellac is the problem. Shellac is a known and proven sealer and undercoat between differing and incompatible finishes.

    UNLESS its a waxed version but then I would expect to see wax eyes or dimples not big movement as you are showing....guesses from me to consider ....too shiny an under surface, giving nothing for the paint to key on and/or too heavy a primer / top coats....or contamination of the undercoat or topcoat...possibly all 3...?

    Good luck.
     
    awasson likes this.

  16. Gibson

    Gibson Friend of Leo's

    Feb 13, 2007
    Park Island
    That looks kinda cool . . . I notice you're in San Pedro. Maybe you could put a clear seal over the cracked finish and make it some kind of quake-caster :D

    Edit: I just saw your latest post too late—you've already sanded it down. Oh well :p
     

  17. grooveiron

    grooveiron Tele-Meister Ad Free + Supporter

    Age:
    58
    287
    Mar 29, 2008
    Calgary, AB
    I think it looks really good with the cracks! Sorry, I know that’s not what you want to hear…
    A true Frankencaster - IT’S ALIVE!!!
     

  18. awasson

    awasson Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    53
    Nov 18, 2010
    Vancouver
    That’s nasty. Sorry to see that but I’m sure you’ll get it sorted out.

    I doubt it’s the shellac. There are sealer products used to prevent stains from seeping through drywall and wood for house painting (killz, etc...). It’s just tinted shellac. Shellac is an ideal sealer and you can coat it with pretty much anything.
     

  19. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    61
    Mar 19, 2006
    Gilbert, AZ (PHX)
    I wouldn't use Zinsser shellac. If you want to use shellac mix flakes with alcohol.

    What kind of grain filler did you use and how long did it dry before the primer?
    Why put shellac on before the grain filler? (that seems backwards)
    I am guessing your grain filler was not compatible with the nitro primer.
     
    DrASATele and El Tele Lobo like this.

  20. newuser1

    newuser1 Tele-Meister

    Age:
    46
    237
    Mar 1, 2017
    Toronto
    I've used Zinsser's shellac from a can (apparently waxed) as a seal coat under automotive primer/paint (Duplicolor) and it worked great.
     

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