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Gibson Must Have Sent a Cease-And-Desist to Warmoth...

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by jimdkc, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. jimdkc

    jimdkc Tele-Afflicted

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    If you click any Gibson body shapes on Warmoth's Body Builder, you now see:

    I thought the Gibson and Fender had lost the body-shape war... but won the headstock-shape war... or was that just Fender?
     
  2. hemingway

    hemingway Friend of Leo's

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    Hmm, I can see their point; but it's not gonna make anyone who was set on building their own guitar go out and buy a Gibson. Why don't they just license them?
     
  3. Nick JD

    Nick JD Doctor of Teleocity

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  5. Jack FFR1846

    Jack FFR1846 Tele-Afflicted

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    It comes down to who has more lawyer clout. If IBM were to sue me over one of my patents, guess what? I don't have the funds to fight it, even though I'd be on solid ground. I'm sure that's what happened here. Carroll Shelby sued both Factory Five Racing and Superformance over the shape of the Shelby Cobra body. Superformance didn't want to fund an expensive fight and gave in to licensing. Factory Five fought and won handily, but at great legal cost (their lawyers were $350 per hour....I know the owners).
     
  6. crazydave911

    crazydave911 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Trying to attain Rickenbacker type attitude aren't they (Gibson that is)?
     
  7. OpenG Capo4

    OpenG Capo4 Friend of Leo's

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    Its not just their LP bodies either, they have it for their SG bodies too. You'd think Gibson would back off since these bodies are using Fender style neck pockets and made to 25.5" scale.

    And if Gibson were serious about protecting their shapes, there are companies making exponentially more LP and SG copies than Warmoth, and with exponentially deeper pockets too.
     
  8. crazydave911

    crazydave911 Poster Extraordinaire

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    And there ya' have it...........the typical bully picking on the wimpy kid (sorry Warmoth). You'd think Gibson had enough legal issues without picking on somebody else :rolleyes:. I really wish some of those "deep pockets" would challenge this and run that Gibby prez out of town. I wasn't kidding in my other comment, this cat is getting a little too "John Hall" in his attitude. One of those in this world is too many ;)
     
  9. whodatpat

    whodatpat Friend of Leo's

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    They lost their case with PRS. It is all about who can afford to argue the fact that Gibson lost the right to protect a trademark shape when they allowed it to be copied by everyone under the sun over 50 the past years. You cant put that genie back in the bottle when it comes to those body designes. But, if your Gibson you would want to keep trying to get every LP clone body off the market even if you can't win every battle to do so. It is worth the expense of trying. One day they may just win one of those cases for the body and have precident for more.

    You either protect your trademark from day 1 or lose it as a trademark. Fender and Gibson did figure that out soon enough to protect their headstock designs. Though Leo clearly ripped off Bigsby in the first place. He is the one who protected the trademark shape. Try to sell a strat or tele headstock and see how fast you make friends with Fender's legal team.;)
     
  10. crazydave911

    crazydave911 Poster Extraordinaire

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    You nailed it, they're looking for precedent. I'd hate to see Warmoth being the one ;)
     
  11. deadicated

    deadicated Tele-Holic

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    Yeah this happened a month or two back. If you search on the SD forums it has been discussed rather lengthily. I'm not gonna get into who's right or wrong because that's a can of worms but it does suck either way. Just one more reason to do more scratch builds. It'll take Gibson a long time to work their way down to pipsqueeks like me.
     
  12. OpenG Capo4

    OpenG Capo4 Friend of Leo's

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    I would think that their non-enforcement of trademarks on body shapes has been one of the biggest contributors to their success though. I mean the Tele, Strat, SG, 335, and LP are pretty much the definitive guitar shapes. Most players start out on a clone, and then they go to the genuine article.

    I mean maybe Gibson is trying to close up the low end market so the only Gibson-shapes will be Epiphones or licensed models, but it seems thats cutting off their nose to spite their face.

    Eventually Gibson is going get to a "New Coke" level of crazy. :D
     
  13. crazydave911

    crazydave911 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Like the "X" and Zootsuit haven't already done that?

    I respectfully suggest they're there already :rolleyes:
     
  14. timmyc

    timmyc Tele-Meister

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  15. fluid69

    fluid69 Tele-Holic

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    If gibson wouldnt charge $3000 for a $600 guitar more people would buy from them to start with. I think fender is catching on to that.

    "If you want rules, read the IRS tax code. If you want to build guitars, make some sawdust." -Colt W. Knight
     
  16. guitar2005

    guitar2005 Tele-Holic

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    I challenge anyone to build a LP for 600.00. There's a lot more involved in building a Les Paul vs a tele or Strat.

    3K for a Les Paul? No way. You can get a real nice LP for less than 1'200.
    http://www.long-mcquade.com/product...ric/Gibson/Les_Paul_60s_Tribute_-_Goldtop.htm
     
  17. Picton

    Picton Friend of Leo's

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    I'm not picking a fight, but plenty of folks on here could build an LP clone for under $600. There's nothing incredibly difficult about them if you've got some woodworking chops and have arched a top before.

    I think Gibson's sick of everyone talking about CITES, and is trying to change the subject. And I'm with Crazydave; Gibbo lost it completely when they put out that zootsuit abomination. Everything else has just been circling the drain. JMO.
     
  18. crazydave911

    crazydave911 Poster Extraordinaire

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    LOL, yeh, it's not like you see them protecting L6s, Marauders, and Sonexes :D
     
  19. 20721

    20721 Former Member

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    Not really. Glue-in necks are so easy to do that Rondo can sell one for $139. To do a proper Paul, AAA grade top and decent mahogany, materials will run me about $300 or so. The main difference, if you will, is binding, and binding is demanding but not difficult or expensive.

    The main difference between me building a Les Paul and Gibson building one, besides me acquiring my rosewood legally, is that Gibson will have a much easier time of it; I don't have a CNC machine to do all my cuts and the top arch. Back when you had to do all that by hand there was a real reason for some of the price differential, but that reason hasn't existed since the 1990s.

    Yet another company that can't compete on the merits trying to keep market share via litigation.
     
  20. guitar2005

    guitar2005 Tele-Holic

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    Here's a rough ballpark:

    Wood - Mahogany + maple cap + neck wood + fretboard material = at least $100.00 for nice pieces. I'm lowballing here because I know that some of you can get wood for cheap.

    Tuners = Cheapest Gotohs are $30.00
    Bridge + Tailpiece = $50.00
    Decent Pickups = $150.00
    Decent Controls and Electonics = $25.00
    Misc Hardware = $25.00
    Misc Sandpaper and supplies like glue = $25.00
    Tusq Nut = $10.00
    Finishing + Buffing + coloring + tinting + Cleanup Materials = $50.00
    Inlay Materials = $40.00
    Binding = $10.00
    Frets = $10.00

    I'm already over $500.00

    That's assuming you already have all the tools and you don't include the wear and tear on blades, router bits and whatnot.

    Then, you include your time for free but Gibson can't do that because they're a business.


    A Les Paul is more work because of:
    1- Mahogany body + separate top
    2- Routing is more intricate
    3- Headstock Angle
    4- Neck and body binding
    5- Carved top
    6- Neck angle
     
  21. OpenG Capo4

    OpenG Capo4 Friend of Leo's

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    I'm doing an LP build now. I'm about 2/3 of the way finished with the neck. and haven't even made the body templates yet. Been working on it about 2 weeks. If I were building a Tele, I'd be spraying lacquer by now. If I were really serious about getting paid for my time, I'd be way over the price I quoted the customer. :D
     
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