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Gibson have apparently learned nothing.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by WetBandit, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere

    I mean are they using something other than mahogany and maple? If so then they lose some more points..

    And if they are still using the mahogany maple combo where are they finding lighter variants?

    They are just chambering the guitars dude, not using a lighter base material...

    Unless they aren't using the classic combo?
     
    Cog513 likes this.
  2. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Age:
    59
    Mar 16, 2003
    Arlington, VA
    One of the many things I dislike about les Paul’s is the ridiculous heavy weight of the things. Chambering seems like a good idea

    I feel for Gibson and fender. If they try something new people pee all over them, an if they don’t try anything new, they can’t make any money, because Larry the lawyer and don the dentist already have the vintage spec model and are unlikely to buy a second one.
     
  3. luckett

    luckett Friend of Leo's

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    OMG!1111!!! How are the fragile electrons ever going to make it across that horrible silicon substrate without losing all their vintage mojo?
     
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  4. viking

    viking Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    52
    Jan 23, 2007
    Denmark
    Ok , then let me tell you that , IMO , tone wood only mean anything on the internet , not really irl
    pcb construction , well , we covered that the other day......A former Gibson employee informed me , and many others on a Gibson board, that the pcb is actually costing Gibson MORE money , they actually believe it is better for the customer.

    Why do they use old school pots on the more expensive models ? Because the yahoos that buy historics , and think they can hear a real Brazilian rosewood fretboard , well.......you might have guessed it , they can hear the difference in the pcb vs traditional pots too.......and also in the bumble bee looking caps !

    oh , and they can also hear the hide glue .....
    The other day a guy had heard his top was made from "Hard Rock Maple " , and wondered what he should listen to vs "Regular Maple "......
    The internet is a big place , and some people believe anything they read.....
    I believe Fender also mentions something about tone wood , and how nitro laquer allows the wood to breathe......come on people , use your brain

    Sorry to be long winded , but : wrong color ? Too many tone options ? Easy , dont buy one , someone else will love it..........If they dont sell enough , maybe you will like next years " rewamp " of a 60 yo model
     
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  5. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere
    Read previous posts... I'm not worried about the tone... that's of no consequence.

    I'm worried about durability and longevity.

    The pots are plastic for christ sake.
     
  6. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

    Apr 18, 2014
    Near Detroit, MI
    Gibson is not about the working musician, never was. Except the period where famous-to-be players bought them from pawn shops in the 60s because no one wanted these ten year old abused guitars and thus they were cheap. Those players rode the magical rock n roll wave and pulled the guitars along with them. Then Gibson gave guitars to popular players hoping that all the regular fans would spend some cash and actually buy them.

    PRS has been having some success with blue figured tops so Gibson decided to capture that market segment.

    Only 5% of all unit guitar sales are over the $2,500 price point. They are building guitars for a very narrow subset of players.

    Gibson should make a line of scarf-joint guitars so players that can afford A Real Gibson can be comforted that the headstock won't fly off in shipping or tipping off a guitar stand -- avoiding all that headstock breakage anxiety.

    .
     
    bigbean likes this.
  7. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere
    And yet they are trying to be a viable company by not targeting real players? Come on man really?

    Guess this is why they are in the toilet...
     
  8. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Right.

    A little perspective. I didn't take the time to find multiple sources. But a quick Google search says that a LP sold for about $375 in 1958. Which inflation calculators says equates to - about $3200-3300. Hmm. These list for $3399 which means you can get them for $3k or less all day. Have they raised prices at all then?

    They offer it in cherry burst. Is that not authentic/traditional enough? Very "standard" color for LPs.

    I also seem to recall you posting pictures of a music room literally bursting with gear. So if you are a "working" musician it appears you have made a choice to acquire lots of things over a few higher priced things. Perfectly rational decision but don't blame Gibson for that.

    "Gibson doesn't make exactly what I want. Or maybe they do, but they don't call it exactly what I want. And what I want is cheaper than the thing called what I want it to be called. And more aptly named. But I don't like that. Ergo, Gibson has learned nothing."

    Hysterical indeed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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  9. LeftFinger

    LeftFinger Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    68
    Aug 16, 2015
    Saskatchewan
    So if you want one do you phone up and ask for a
    Blueberry Dip Shxt Lester

    :p
     
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  10. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere

    Has nothing to do with me and everything to do with Gibsons business decisions amidst very troubled times for the company.

    It seems to me like it would be time for them to get back to what made them what they are and produce the things and models that are tried and true proven instruments... instead of some lame new age attempt at capturing a young audience that have nearly ZERO chance of affording these things to start with.


    Just doesn't make good sense given their situation.


    And yes it does piss me off that they are running a historic company and name into the ground, instead of doing what has made them the iconic brand that they are.
     
  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Lol...thanks for the chuckles. I am going today to look at a 60 year Les Paul Stand@rd....1958. I hope I can get it at some affordable ‘various price’!!!


    Well, Martin, you might want to rethink the use of that one, right? This is the second time today Imhave read that ter. The first was when researching the racist remarks that E. Clapton made back in 1976.....and now your use of it made me look it up...since I am not English. That is quite a racist term, now, isn’t it???? (;^)
     
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  12. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Please share with us the longstanding multinational product manufacturing and distribution companies you run.

    From what I've read, the Gibson guitar business is largely successful. It was the side "lifestyle and electronics" acquisitions, and the debt required to execute them, that proved problematic.

    As others already pointed out, they still make exactly what you are looking for. It is called the Traditional. A word that is more apt.

    There are also Studio and Tribute models that sell for far less, and generally have a more traditional feature set, if somewhat less cosmetics.

    I haven't read their marketing collateral, but I wouldn't assume the dip switches are aimed at young people. I think its more likely they are aimed at mature "toan daddies" who want the illusion of control over everything.
     
  13. luckett

    luckett Friend of Leo's

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    If they had handwired all those turntables and cassette decks instead of using PCBs and plastic knobs then Gibson wouldn't be having all the problems they are currently facing.
     
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  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Mar 17, 2003
    Lubbock, TX
    Gibson has always been pointed toward the pro working musician. Witness the countless recordings done in any genre you want to mention in any decade...jazz, rock, pop, country.....there were and are pros work8ng with Gibson’s.
    Those players in the ‘60’s who brought the Les Paul out of the pawn shops and onto the stages around the world did so because of the sounds....for no other reason. Butterfield, Clapton, Page.
    Gibson has always used figured maple....just as the builders of viol family 8nstrumenta always used figured maple in the instruments that were intended for the higher levels of musicians. Student viol models built by shop apprentices used plan woods. The instruments built by the master builders always used figured woods. PRS did not start anyth8ng new there.
    The natural finish Gibson’s from the ‘30’s on always had the fancier figured wood....for aesthetics. Those vintage blonde Gibson’s command a premium because of that......just as the use of highly figured wood on say a PRS commands extra money.

    The ‘subset’ of players who play on Gibson’s is more a result of inexpensive made in Asia guitars flooding the market....check out a pawn shop today, right????? Wall to wall guitars for $69. The shrinking numbers of players who can afford any American made guitar is a result of the shrinking middle class in this country. That shrinkage started 46 years ago....and it is not done yet. Tighten your belt some more, sports fans. The middle class is done for....they just don’t know it because they still have some credit available. We are living in the 1920’s....and just don’t know it because it is a modern version of the farce.
    Fwiw, The first guitar I paid for with my money cost me almost $4K in today’s money. I was a poor working boy of 16 making almost $12an hourin today’s money washing and lubing cars that summer. You won’t find that job today, will you?

    Do I like the PCB in modern Gibson’s? No! But....the last one Imset up was a killer playing guitar when I was throug with it. He asked me about mods to th circuit. I told him to make really sure he was going to keep it. If he was and still wanted versatility, I’ll get rid of all of that PCB.

    Blue guitars??. I gon’t like any of them I have ever seen except the blue bursts I saw on an ES-335 and a L.P. From 2-3 yers ago.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  15. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere
    Then they missed the mark, Mark!

    These "Toan Daddies" you speak of are the guys who WILL turn their noses up at the thought of a "computer" in their guitar!

    And if that's not the case... why make your flagship model targeted toward such a niche.... rather than for the masses?

    Then let the more niche models be for the niche market?

    Someone's marketing logic is tragically flawed! And it doesn't take a team of bankers or scientists to figure that one out.

    Just come off it.... the robo tuners were a bad idea...cost them millions.... the firebird X was bad cost them a ton as well.... they have stayed the course with this new Dip Stick... and guess what?

    Gonna cost them A TON in both money and credibility!

    If I were an investor I would jump from a 10th story window!!!
     
  16. viking

    viking Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    52
    Jan 23, 2007
    Denmark
    I havent really followed the Gibson horror-management stories that closely , but I believe the guitar side of things actually make money for the mothership , right ??
    regarding plastic pots , I talked to a guy one day , he was working in the sales division at one of the classic potentiometer mfg , doesnt matter who he works for. They make everything customers want , different tapers , materials etc........one of the niches are pots for guitars.....The best quality pot today , is like a little black box of sealed plastic , and you can get it with the brass post coming out of it , just like old school pots. Remember , you can get them i every value , every taper that you want , with the brass post , and splines for the ususal knobs. He said they couldnt sell these to the big guitar makers because everybody want the electronics inside to look the same as the did decades ago
     
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  17. warrent

    warrent Tele-Afflicted

    Sep 15, 2009
    toronto
    They're not wasting wood, by using weight relief they are able to use more available wood and still keep the guitar at a playable weight

    You are complaining about sweat and plastic at the same time? Does plastic rust?

    Gibson is being run into the ground because they are using modern materials? The dip switch allows one for example to switch between 50's wiring and modern wiring without needing to resolder all the pots. One could actually hear if there is a difference instantly. How is that a bad thing. No where in any of Gibson's material does it say that Henry will come to your house and at gun point force you to use all 500 possibilities.

    BY the way Gibson sold 22 million dollars worth of guitars and other products in July alone, They're not dead yet.
     
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  18. bftfender

    bftfender Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 21, 2017
    York PA
    plexiguts.jpg
     
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  19. WetBandit

    WetBandit Friend of Leo's

    Oct 11, 2016
    Somewhere
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  20. bftfender

    bftfender Tele-Afflicted

    Dec 21, 2017
    York PA
    that was build day from the maker. think its a JMP50, 4 hole, el34 ,hoffman board w/trainwreck 3 master volume..very good amp..the clearest tone, will expose you. I gig with a new DSL40cr made into head and used this to set my clean & crunch, surprisingly the DSL can cop the tones pretty close. I use this for anything that doesn't need a modern heavy sound..oh man is it a dirty blues..hard rock amp
     
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