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Gibson have apparently learned nothing.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by WetBandit, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. luckett

    luckett Friend of Leo's

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    It sounds like it's time for you to lock yourself in your underground bunker and wait for the apocalypse. Get a switch in the bunker wired up to a neon "Get off my lawn!" sign on the front porch and you'll be all set until the end times.
     
  2. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

    I'm pretty sure Robo tuners are a Portent.
     
  3. luckett

    luckett Friend of Leo's

    Jun 14, 2011
    .
    It won't be long before fire and DIP switches rain down from heaven.
     
  4. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

    666 is the number of configurations and the number of configurations is 666.
     
    Jakedog and soulgeezer like this.
  5. cntry666

    cntry666 Tele-Afflicted

    Aug 16, 2010
    decatur, ga
    I have not liked Gibson since 2015. Crap quality and crap parts. They don’t realize there are plenty other brands that make better guitars for half the price.
    They don’t cater to their audience. If I buy Gibson I usually hit the used market for 80’s and 90’s models.
     
  6. jabsalt

    jabsalt Tele-Meister

    325
    Apr 23, 2007
    New York
    Just learned a new word....bucolic, now we need the politically correct translation (urban challenged).
     
  7. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Hopefully you realize not catering. To you and not catering to their audience might be distinct, right?

    What are the comparable, better quality guitars for half the price, please?

    I would love to know about the set neck, carved top, bound neck and/or body, rosewood board, all nitro, made-in-USA guitars are, that are listing starting at $400-600. Please.

    Even without an iconic brand on the headstock.
     
    Jakedog and guitarbuilder like this.
  8. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    Nothing is guaranteed. I've seen more coarsely finished guitars than the dud that I bought brand new in 1996, but nothing since then with the structural problems that guitar had (and I was too young to spot them back then - I just thought the guitar needed a setup).

    The used nighthawk that I got recently (it's either a 2013 or 2014 "anniversary" model with a curly maple top) is as neatly made as any gibson guitar that I've ever played. To get a tidier guitar, you have to go upward to the boutiques, and a used version of the same thing would be two or three times as much.
     
  9. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    Tokai - half the price, quality is about the same (some of those have issue, too, but they're usually not garish - just things like bridges slightly off center or a guitar that develops a little body hump over time).

    Unfortunately, they're not retailed here. I'd imagine it's due to the threat of litigation that existed in the past (and may here if tokai sold japanese made guitars with the open book pattern on the peghead).

    The difference between tokai and gibson is that tokai's upper models (before you get into their custom shop type stuff) are point to point wired, just "plain" paf type pickups, nitro lacquer and single piece backs and necks. They're sort of the "old gibson" that a lot of the complainers above are looking for.

    For such a thing, like a '58 les paul current version with african mahogany instead of honduran, the street price delivered to the states is around $1600-$1700. You have to hunt a little bit to find a dealer who will actually ship to the states, though - they're afraid your guitar is going to get seized for various reasons (rosewood fingerboard, because it's a gibson copy, or just because they've been told not to send any new guitars to the states).
     
  10. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity

    Feb 14, 2011
    Annapolis, MD
    Why is a Traditional “garbage”?
     
  11. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

    Nov 5, 2006
    Sinatra's World
    This guitar is everything a Les Paul should be, but at less than half the price Gibson charges. Sure, it's made in Japan, but so is every high-end Gretsch these days, too...

    https://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/80-313532000

    I have one made by the same company under a store brand (History, by Shimamura Music). It's the only Les Paul I'll ever need. I just wish I didn't need to travel to Japan to buy it!
     
  12. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    By the way, the trouble that Gibson has with counterfeits, tokai are good enough that there are counterfeits to watch out for there, too. They're not as common, but I have no idea if they may also be better and harder to tell (especially now that there are really good chinese les paul copies coming out of china - like tokai's chinese LP copies).

    As far as the idea that every single aspect has to match gibson, you do realize that gibson would just sue someone if they did that. I'm not aware of any les paul that uses nitro - especially buffed, binding (body and neck), carved maple top, etc, that's about $1000. Otherwise, someone could easily make the same thing that Gibson makes in a guitar like I described above from tokai for 2/3rds of the les paul standard and undercut gibson's sales.

    What sticks out in my mind is the Dean USA guitars that were made in the early 2000s - I don't know what shop in the US made them, but they are so incredibly far beyond the workmanship and detail execution (the quality of the top carve, and complexity, the binding work on the neck - black binding that was pretty much invisible - and the overall straightness of the guitars and their ability to stay straight indefinitely) of gibsons that I've seen....if those shops were allowed to just crank out les pauls, they could probably increase in employee numbers pretty quickly and make gibson look bad.

    That ignores the reality that gibson isn't just charging for the guitars, though. They've got a boatload of endorsements, advertising costs, huge amounts of debt to service, ...
     
  13. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    Ishibashi won't ship any rosewood board guitars to the united states, though.

    I just convinced buyee to send me one made of genuine mahogany (CITES says no mahogany, but restrictions only apply to raw materials - guitars are fine. It was a real chore getting them to send me the guitar they said they'd send - and as of today, they're prepping for shipment, so it hasn't happened yet).

    Otherwise, I've ordered three tokai guitars from japan and all came here in a matter of about four days and customs didn't bugger with them, despite CITES technically banning even finished products that don't have paperwork if they have any restricted rosewoods).

    https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/guitarplanet/item/tokai_ls186_violin_finish_lp/

    This is what I think of with an LP standard. It comes with a nice hard case. The only real concession that I can think of is that the wood is probably khaya rather than bigleaf mahogany, but there are models a notch up from this on the used market in japan for about the same price with custom pickups - usually duncan - and true bigleaf mahogany bodies.

    I don't expect gibson to compete with tokai on making original LP versions, but there was a custom shop version of the LP that tokai made for about $3200 street that was on par with anything gibson calls '59 reissue, and probably better made.
     
  14. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    I don't read Japanese. But right off the bat you have a poly guitar.

    What is the all-in price, with case and shipping, to the US?
     
  15. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    As an aside, if one was going to throw $600 at a used gibson low-end les paul, they'd be far better finding something ls-100 range from tokai. the top will be maple, it'll have good pafs in it, it might even have nitro, and it'll feel a lot like a les paul standard. The lower end models have two piece backs, and lower yet maybe three. but they are fantastic guitars.

    (I have bought two used gibsons since I started dogging gibson, so it's not like I don't buy their stuff, too - I just have zero interest in hunting down mid 2000s LP standards for $2300 used.).
     
  16. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    I've seen you post probably 20+ times on how Gibson screwed you years ago. I have no idea what that means.

    Nor do I know where you would buy a Tokai in the US, new. Or know which are nitro and which are poly. Much less what the prices would be.
     
  17. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    41
    Aug 28, 2018
    Pittsburgh
    You're shooting at more like what I posted. It appears that at current exchange rates, somewhere around $1550-$1600 for a new one, about $1000 for a used one if you can get someone to ship.

    That's been my actual purchasing experience. You get an orangey gibson style plush case with that.

    The guitars can suffer the same ills as a les paul does as they age, though - they're pretty much copies.
     
  18. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    Hmm. No idea what shipping runs. But what stands out:

    1. "Warranty applies only in Japan".
    2. "All sales final. No returns".

    Very different than buying a Gibson then.
     
  19. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

    An excuse to visit Japan!
     
  20. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

    Apr 29, 2013
    near Arnold's
    I have no idea what this means. I was asking about the link he posted for an actual guitar in his post.
     
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