Gassing for a blackface Fender and I’m stuck please help

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Chris4189, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    I own zero master volume amps. Again, if I need to tame them, I knock a few dB off with a powerstation.
     
  2. GeoB

    GeoB Tele-Holic

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    Stew Mac has kits with new old school componants. Search around for kits. Tweeds, Deluxes etc... kind of of a cool niche market.

    All my old 60s gear is long gone. There's a certain point where the carcass remains but componants give out, dry rots, etc...

    Luckily I saw the light of the oncoming train and parted company with the relics. Thankfully they all went to people who strictly restore for their own studio use. I gigged and needed roadworthy reliability.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  3. E5RSY

    E5RSY Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've had a '74 Super Reverb with MV for 30 years. These are wonderful amps and many bargains can be found. Can't speak for the Ultrlinear models, but not a thing wrong with the standard wattage MVs.
     
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  4. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    You know, another often overlooked option are the silverface Bandmasters...and they can be had as heads - you gotta watch the impedance matching though. Some of them might be 2-4 ohm. But they're usually a steal. I think they're pretty cool.

    Something like this:
    https://reverb.com/item/4975556-vintage-1968-fender-bandmaster-head-silverface-drip-edge
     
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  5. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've been playing for 50 years, and a Fender man all that time.

    The super reverb is one of the greatest amps of all time. Deluxe will probably be ok, but I recommend the Super.

    Your project, not mine. Only thing to do is play a bunch of amps, you'll figure it out pretty quick, I think. I just worry about you jumping on a Champ without checking out the Fender 2x6L6 amps. Those are the ones that made Fender famous. Champs were for kids that couldn't afford what they really wanted.
     
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  6. Whoa Tele

    Whoa Tele Friend of Leo's

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    I have a Wonderdawg by Lil Dawg amps. Sort of a Deluxe/Super hybrid. Can't recommend it highly enough.
     
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  7. Greggorios

    Greggorios Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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  8. knavel

    knavel TDPRI Member

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    As one of three brothers who play, we have/have had them all so I know them pretty well: Just blackface amps are - 3x Twin Reverb, Super Reverb, Vibrolux Reverb, 3x Deluxe Reverb, Deluxe No Reverb, 2x Princeton Reverb, 2x Vibro-Champ.

    As far as gigging goes, I thought the best of them was the Vibrolux Reverb. The other one I really thought stuck out was a blonde / oxblood Bandmaster (not on the list above because not blackface).

    For recording the best sounds I ever gotten were from a Deluxe Reverb + Echoplex + ProCo Rat on very low gain.

    My least favorite was the Super Reverb--it had a very glassy tone to me that I couldn't use. But others right here have said that their favorite is the Super Reverb. I sold my SR to a Bouzouki player who said the SR was his favorite and he wrote me after he got mine gushing that it was the greatest SR he ever heard. So there you go.

    I am also a Fender/Gretsch/Rickenbacker player of surf, 60s, mod, etc--not southern rock--so I am extra hesitant to comment on what's best for you as that is very subjective. In more recent years I've became adept at mic'ing and putting into small monitors my Princeton Reverb and used that live at pretty much every enclosed space we played in. I would these days only take out my most powerful amp (a brownface Super or a brownface Tremolux) to an outdoor gig.

    From what I read in this thread you seem to be preferring (but with an exception in one or two places) something that gets loud. For blackface, consider also a Pro Reverb, which is a Twin Reverb with half the power.

    If you don't mind piggyback (and not having reverb built in), as mentioned there is the blackface Bandmaster also Tremolux and even Bassman. They are comparatively less popular because they are more to carry. Only you know what combination of volume, 10 or 12'', weight and size you really want. I don't see the point of a (Vibro)Champ unless you want a bedroom amp or something to record with.
     
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  9. Middleman

    Middleman Friend of Leo's

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    I concur with knavel, the Vibrolux was my favorite Amp across years of playing various Fenders. Just a note on Silverfaces, if someone has not already stated it (sorry didn't read the whole thread) any model twin and above i.e. bandmaster, super, super six, etc got the horrible CBS modifications but is still a useable platform, these however come with at least a $300 to $400 bill to get the caps up to snuff and possibly have a blackface mod (I.e. undo what CBS did). The Vibrolux on down i.e. Deluxe, Pro, Princeton and smaller where modified very little but may come with a re-cap required. So keep that cost in mind.

    My recommendation as you mentioned smaller amps is the Princeton Reverb Silverface. If you are thinking of the Super Reverb, check out a modern Bassman LTD if you can still find one. Stellar amp and I like the tone about 10% better than a Super Reverb even vintage versions. Big Amp though.

    I would have recommended the Deluxe Reverb, (have one) but has less edge than the Marshall you've been playing i.e. more rounded tone and you might not like that as much. However note, a lot of albums you reference probably tracked the song through one of these. At least the rhythm guitar.
     
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  10. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    I’ve played Marshall’s for so long that I’m actually looking for a different sound.

    I’ve spent the better part of yesterday evening scouring reverb, eBay etc and man it seems like In many cases minus the twins the silver face prices are catching up with black faces especially the non master and drip edges models. The Vibrolux In both is very pricey. The cost of the silver face deluxes and Princeton’s is not too far behind the blackfaces from what I saw.

    The few guitar centers that are close to me all seem to have the reissues in stock so that will be an adventure for this weekend but none have any originals in stock.

    Again, this is an untraveled road for me, but, it looks like a lot of these used original ones for sale fell prey to the same crap I’m used to dealing with in vintage Marshall’s. People have modified them 100 ways from Sunday, speakers mismatched, cobbled back together etc. I hate to buy a vintage amp without playing it first and there just seems to be none around within reasonable driving distance. Do you roll the dice or just buy a reissue and get 90% there and call it a day?

    Yes, I’m fully aware of clones and I’m not saying there isn’t good ones but the whole Marshall clone scene left a bad taste in my mouth. Some highly touted ones sounded/felt nothing like a vintage Marshall, some were the builders take on what he thought the perfect Marshall should and the others were all going for the EVH sponge variac sound and at the end of the day most sounded not much different then an off the shelf 1959 reissue. Sure, the filtering was softer on the old ones and breakup came on a little later but no real earth shattering differences. Once you put in some good NOS glass, do a couple of tweaks to the circuit and get some Greenies the differences are even far less noticeable.
     
  11. jman72

    jman72 Tele-Afflicted

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    I have three Fender amps..a 1976 Silverface Twin Reverb (100 watts), a 1977 Silverface Pro Reverb (45 watts), and a Tweed Deluxe 5e3 clone I built (~15 watts). I have gigged with them all and played the smaller two extensively in my band(s). This is what I know:

    The two Silverface amps are both LOUD when cranked, and still TOTALLY clean. You will NOT get ANY usable breakup from anything bigger than a Princeton Reverb at any reasonable volume, much less at bedroom volume like you're looking for. Remember, Fenders (Blackface and Silverface) are different beasts altogether from Marshalls. They are CLEAN MACHINES, with sparkly highs and shimmering reverb. If you want ANY breakup, you will HAVE to use a dirt pedal. That's what Tube Screamers and the like are for...pushing a clean Fender amp into breakup. Know this going in.

    My buddy has a Silverface Princeton Reverb and it is also loud, but he has a Celestion in it, so at full band volume, it has a very nice slightly overdriven sound...nothing like a Marshall mind you, just a nice full slightly overdriven clean sound. Very nice, but still very loud before it distorts at all.Even my Tweed Deluxe is totally loud enough for my rock band (and we're pretty loud), so don't think you need to go huge wattage to get loud, especially for Fender clean tones.

    Reissue or original? I personally prefer the Silverfaces, but they are more expensive than the re-issues and do often need re-cap jobs to get them up to specs. Tone-wise? I don't think you'd notice much difference. And I'm totally a Silverface fan..tone-wise I think they're fantastic and easily Blackfaced if you want (my Pro is Blackfaced but I don't think it would really be necessary). And all the hate on master volume models? Please, just max it out and it doesn't much matter. The Silverface amps are glorious tone machines!

    So, it sounds to me like you just want a smaller Fender amp for something different, so I'd recommend either the reissue Princeton Reverb or the Deluxe Reverb. I'd personally go for the DRRI if I were you- you're not going to get breakup with the PR anyway, and the DR gives you a little more volume if you ever want to gig with. The higher-wattage amps (Vibroluxe, Pro, Super, Twin) are WAY more than you need to play around with at home.
     
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  12. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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  13. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    You guys were spot on regarding the champ. I played a ‘66 bone stock all original one today at my techs shop. While it sounded good and I can totally see why they were widely used back in the day for recording, it sounded rather thin and a little weak while playing in just a room. I guess it’s due to the little speaker but that little thing had more mids then a Marshall.

    He also let me plug into a 68 twin with the volume on 5 with Ceriatone Klon with each knob set at noon and that was almost magical with my R9.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 3:41 PM
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  14. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yeah, I have tried big speakers etc with a Champ, including EV10's and a 15 + 10 Combination. it doesn't help a lot. Did it again a few months ago. For one thing it's single ended which is a bit of a grainy tone anyway, add to that it's a 5 watt amp and.....
     
  15. GuitLoop

    GuitLoop TDPRI Member

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    Totally agree with the suggestions of a Super or Deluxe. I've owned both (vintage units). I liked the sound of the super the best but didn't use it much for 2 reasons...
    1 For most of my situations it was way too loud.
    2 Due to overall size and weight it was a serious hassle to transport.

    I recently sold my early 70s Super and bought a 65 DRRI. Totally happy w it.
     
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  16. Crobbins

    Crobbins Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    +1...................
     
  17. AJBaker

    AJBaker Friend of Leo's

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    For bang for buck, keep an eye out for the heads like the bandmaster or bassman.
     
  18. KC

    KC Friend of Leo's

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    sounds like you answered your question. Allen Old Flame 2x10 and a KTR if you liked the Twin / Centura pair.
     
  19. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    I’m going to go tomorrow and check out a 66 Showman piggy back that has a single 15” JBL in it.
     
  20. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 TDPRI Member

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    Can you hear anything today other than the tinintis?

    Wow a Twin at 5 would blow my ears off. But I'm old. Lol.
     
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