Gassing for a blackface Fender and I’m stuck please help

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Chris4189, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    Long time listener, first time caller.

    I have been a stout Marshall super lead devote for years and now I’m looking to expand my horizons as my wife says and looking to purchase my first black face fender.

    I live out in the country and have a Fryette powerstation so volume is no real big concern for me and I’m practically deaf now. I play Lester’s, SG’s and Firebirds pretty much exclusively and the only effects I use are an old vintage Echoplex EP3 and Dallas Rangemaster. I get my dirt/cleans from the guitar and amp. I don’t use distortion or overdrive pedals.

    I play a lot of classic rock from the late 60’s-70’s and in particular a lot of southern rock. ABB, Skynyrd and Marshall Tucker. I also dig on James Gang stuff a lot. All of which used either black face or silver face twins, supers and Princeton’s, champs etc.

    Here is where I’m stuck. The reissue blackface deluxes, Twins and supers seem to get either a lot of love as being 90% true to their forefathers and even closer after being rebaised hotter, maybe some Weber speakers and NOS glass or a lot of hate as being too cold, too thin and not worth dumping the money into. Thoughts?
    Out of the reissues the Super seems to be the one perhaps?

    For about the same price as the above amps not including any mods/upgrades you can get nice used unmolested blackface Vibro champs and Supers.

    If we are talking about Vintage amps, I’m really leaning towards a 65 Vibro champ as they seem to overdrive very nicely and seem to have the same general sound and tone as a twin.

    I’m all ears guys!
     
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  2. KC

    KC Friend of Leo's

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    If you're trying to decide between a 5-watt amp with an 8 inch speaker and a 40-watt amp with 4x10, you have decisions to make that we can't help you with. One is a decent recording / rehearsal tool, the other a warhorse live performance amp. You probably need both.

    If you can find a blackface or early silver face Super Reverb for the same price as a reissue, go for it. These are lifetime amps, though they may need some service. You can get some very nice compressed / distorted sounds out of a Super but only at volume -- lots of volume.
     
  3. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 TDPRI Member

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    Super, Deluxe or Twin if you need the headroom.
     
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  4. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Not a radio show.
     
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  5. Mark the Moose

    Mark the Moose Tele-Meister

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    There are loads of builders serving up blackface replicas or slightly modified versions. Check out the Allen Encore.
     
  6. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    I don’t need the headroom. I don’t use pedals. I like the natural breakup of an amp and don’t mind if comes early.
     
  7. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 TDPRI Member

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    Deluxe or Princeton
     
  8. Telecastoff1

    Telecastoff1 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    "If we are talking about Vintage amps, I’m really leaning towards a 65 Vibro champ as they seem to overdrive very nicely and seem to have the same general sound and tone as a twin."

    If you're looking for an amp that will easily produce over drive for you, I believe you've already answered your own question and should go with the 65 Vibro Champ. But, that small amp will never have the sound and tone of a Twin Reverb. Personally, I would go with something in between that may closely approach what you're looking for. Perhaps a SF or BF vintage Vibrolux Reverb. Just my .02 cents worth.
     
  9. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    Deluxe Reverb
     
  10. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    Original or reissue?
     
  11. Charlodius

    Charlodius Tele-Meister

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    If you want the amp to break up naturally and don’t need to be clean at drummer volume , 65PRRI. Otherwise, 65 DRRI.
     
  12. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    I really don’t need a live performance amp. I just think from the YouTube’s clips I have heard and the artist that I listen to that used the Supers the supers sound really good! I have a powerstation so I can knock a few dB off with that.
     
  13. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    I'll probably get lambasted for this but.....it doesn't matter.

    The age of the components in an original will make them sound different from one to another anyway. There's no real way to fairly compare them to a reissue. You might find an original that's perfect, you might find one that sounds worse than a reissue.

    The bottom line is the reissue sounds like it should, so it's a good choice IMO.
     
  14. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    Makes total sense! I went thru a bunch of not so good sounding vintage ‘68 and ‘69 super leads until I found the one I currently own.
     
  15. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    Yes! Old Marshalls are notorious for being all over the map. Most have them have been ridden hard and then relegated to sitting in closets because they're so loud. Some are wonderful, some are like "wtf why do people like these things"?

    Old Fenders won't be much different in that regard. Try before you buy, or in the case of a reissue, just buy it and rock out.
     
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  16. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    Guys thanks so much for the replies!

    It seems like the Vibro Champand deluxe are the two standouts so far.

    If we’re are talking about reissues of the above do you guys recommend any speakers over the other? Seems like people really like Weber’s for Fender amps? Glass? Nos or current production? My tech says the reissues are biased too cold and often times biasing them hotter will warm/thicken then up a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  17. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire

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    Well, as said, you need to ferret some things out. You are talking both ends of the spectrum. I dislike Champs, too much gnarl for me. A Princeton reverb cranked is a thing of beauty. A Super Reverb is the best (loud) amp I have ever experienced. The thing is... you dont have to buy a Reissue Super Reverb or Twin Reverb because both of the vintage ones in SF are cheap on the used market! Maybe $500-$700
    Speakers is a lot about you. IF you need louder, then Weber's are great. The Weber XXF150 series in 10's or 12's is THE speaker for a loud southern rock style sound. But some Emi's like the GA SC64 or the 1258 etc will do it too and be less money.
    I had Webers in a Super Reverb for a while. Vibrolux too. Heavy amp with those though. and the amp is loud and good with the original speakers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  18. Chris4189

    Chris4189 TDPRI Member

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    What year silverfaces are the ones to look at? Everyone seems to dislike the master volume ones. Are there certain year silverfaces that are the same or close to the blackfaces?
     
  19. Greg_L

    Greg_L Tele-Holic

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    A fresh, correct bias setting is probably a good thing. Amps leave the factory cold for a number of reasons; tube longevity, reliability, etc. Speaker choice is as varied as the opinions of them. I think you'll have to decide that one for yourself. For me, tubes is another unpopular opinion that I carry around in that I don't care about tubes. A tube that works properly is good to me. I don't care if it's NOS or fresh off the shelf. It just has to work. To me there are at least dozen things that matter for tone shaping before you get to a lowly tube. I know that others will feel very differently. I think it's a good idea to break in a new amp with the tubes that come in it. Let everything settle in while you wear those bitches out and then tune it up with whatever tubes you want.
     
  20. TelZilla

    TelZilla Friend of Leo's

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    If you can afford a vintage black or silverface, by all means go that way.

    Or build a super or a deluxe (or buy one of the repros from Allen or the like). It's pretty hard to beat the deluxe or Princeton for versatility IMO. I think Twins are very cool, but they are so heavy and LOUD LOUD LOUD. Unless you need pristine cleans and you're playing in a basketball arena, I find Twins to be just overkill.
     
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